2012-02-12: The FUDforum translation rally has ended. Thank you for your participation! (Other news...)
Translating talk:FreeCol
Contents
What is the meaning of the variable %amount%? Is it a number only or a number + a unit, e.g. a currency or a weight unit?
Example: {{plural:%amount%|one=Meat|other=Meat|default=Meat}}
Meat is not countable. It is a collective noun. For me the plural statement does not make sense here. Plural makes sense only if the word is not Meat but Piece of meat.
Example: {{plural:%amount%|one=Piece of meat|other=Pieces of meat|default=Piece of meat}}
But the original string has the collective noun only. With a variable %amount% I would expect a value of type number + unit, e.g.
%amount% {{plural:%amount%|one=Meat|other=Meat|default=Meat}}
Example: 5 kg (as value of %amount%) Meat (as value for the other rule).
But in Upper Sorbian in latter case the collective noun stands in genitive singular for all rules (partitive genitve).
%amount% {{plural:%amount%|one=mjasa|two=mjasa|few=mjasa|other=mjasa|default=Mjaso}}
Example: 5 kg mjasa
Otherwise I had to translate English Meat as časć mjasa (one=) resp. časćow mjasa (other=) corresponding to English Piece of meat:
%amount% {{plural:%amount%|one=časć mjasa|two=časćej mjasa|few=časće mjasa|other=časćow mjasa|default=časće mjasa}}
But this makes sense only if the variable %amount% represents a number only, without a unit.
Example: 10 časćow mjasa
FreeCol uses uncountable nouns as countable. It does not have any units, it's just 5 coats, 12 silver, 34 food....
Russian/Belarusian and other Slavic languages also have special handling for one/many when number is not used explicitly (see MediaWiki implementation). Could you please update documentation and software if needed accordingly?
I don't understand what you are asking.
See FreeCol:Model.goods.food.name/en and FreeCol:Model.unit.freeColonist.name/en as examples. Number is not mentioned in text, so plural rules for numbers could not be applied.
I still don't understand what you mean. Can you be more explicit?
I must take up this topic again.
Also for me it is unclear how the plural rules of FreeCol work. My translation language is a Slavic language as well, Upper Sorbian. The plural rules are dependent on a number. That is not new. But there is a different for the other rule: This rule says that nouns must be in genitive plural if the number is 5...100. But, if there is no number the nominative plural must be used.
FreeCol:Model.unit.masterWeaver.name/en
Is here a numerical variable contained in the result view? If yes,
{{plural:%number%|one=Master Weaver|other=Master Weavers|default=Master Weaver}}
would correspond to following MediaWiki plural:
{{PLURAL:$1|$1 Master Weaver|$1 Master Weavers}}
If not, it would correspond to MediaWiki plural:
{{PLURAL:$1|Master Weaver|Master Weavers}}
In Upper Sorbian the rules must look as follows:
In the first case,
{{PLURAL:$1|$1 Tkalči mišter|$1 Tkalčej mištraj|$1 Tkalči mištrojo|$1 Tkalčich mištrow}}
In the second case,
{{PLURAL:$1|Tkalči mišter|Tkalčej mištraj|Tkalči mištrojo|Tkalči mištrojo}}
In FreeCol this Upper Sorbian message would be used:
{{plural:%number%|one=tkalči mišter|two=tkalčej mištraj|few=tkalči mištrojo|other=tkalčich mištrow|default=Tkalči mišter}}
But this is valid only if numerical variable is expressed in result view. The result for the other rule would be
%number% tkalčich mištrow (genitive plural)
But if in the result view no numerical variable shall appear, the other rule would be
Tkalči mištrojo (nominative plural)
In my opinion, a message that shall contain the numerical variable %number% in the result view must have this numerical variable in front of the plural statement:
%number% {{plural:%number%|one=tkalči mišter|two=tkalčej mištraj|few=tkalči mištrojo|other=tkalčich mištrow|default=tkalči mišter}}
This results in: %number% tkalčich mištrow for the other rule.
But my example currently doesn't use a variable before the plural statement. What will be the result view for the other rule then? %number% Master Weavers or only Master Weavers?
Another issue is the use of a plural statement with collective nouns like food, grain etc. They are not countable. Here %amount% is the variable which is not before plural statement, either.
What will b the result for: {{plural:%amount%|one=Food|other=Food|default=Food}}?
%amount% Food or simply Food
In the first case I would expect the variable %amount% before the plural statement.
Thanks in advance.
The plural selector variable within the expression {{...}} is not inserted into the resulting expression. If a numeric expression is required, the variable is used again outside of the expression. Thus {{plural:%number%|one=Horse|other=Horses|default=Horses}} is expanded to "Horse" if %number% is one, and to "Horses" otherwise. The "default" rule is used when no %number% is supplied at all. So, I think the distinction between "other" and "default" is exactly what you are looking for.
Hello Burschik, thank you for your reply.
Hm, but the result view that appears after translation uses the other rule. The result of the translation is other=tkalčich mištrow if I use other rule for numbers resp. other=tkalči mištrojo if I use the other rule for missing numbers. Until now I used the nominative singular for the default rule but in the result view after translation displays the other rule.
What does this "current" refer to?
Got an answer:
- The message is used in the audio options dialog (select Preferences -> Audio) and refers to the currently selected audio output device.
Can someone please explain what is the "Common outpost value"?
Niklas?
I have no idea, I have to ask. Since it is a debug feature, translating it is very low priority.
- As far as I can tell, "outposts" are temporary colonies that might be abandoned after the resource they are exploiting has been exhausted or has become too cheap. The common value refers to the basic value to all European players, i.e. it does not take the placement of other colonies and so on into consideration.
Good enough?
Double spaces are used as separator between sentences, what is not correct. This problem occurred in other messages too.
Something doesn't seem right with this string. I don't remember "block" as an intransitive verb. What does it mean?
~ will stall
From the notes on the FreeCol page we find that the usage is
4. {{tag:|country=Denmark|people=Danish|default=Danish}}
5. You have conquered {{tag:country|%nation%}}.
6. {{tag:people|%nation%}} declared war with you.
To this doesn't make it clear which form the people parameter is supposed to have. To start with "Danish declared war with you." in the example makes no sense.
So is the intention of Danish as in:
- the "Danish" people (swedish would be Danska)
- "The Danish" declared war with you (swedish would be Danskarna)
- "Danish people" like bacon (swedish would be Danskar)
Maybe my example is bad English (I'm not native speaker), but the point is that you can pick your own keys and use them however you want.
Thats ok. The problem is that without understanding how the people key is supposed to be used I don't know which of the three translations is the right one.
You also decide where and how to use the keys.
Arsenal vs Armory: These two words are notorious for being confused with each other. What are their respective functions, according to FreeCol?
Compare FreeCol:Model.building.armory.description/en, FreeCol:Model.building.magazine.description/en and FreeCol:Model.building.arsenal.description/en. Magazine is an upgrade to armory and Arsenal is an upgrade to magazine.
And you should really try the game out :)
Message PlayerNation ("%player%'s %nation%") would need to have GENDER support.
Why? %player% is the name of the player and %nation% is the player's nation.
Because %player% and %nation% have genders, and a Colognian genitive (%player%s) requires two words, one depending on the gender and the numerus of %player%, the other depending on the gender and the numerus of %player% plus the gender and the numerus of %nation%. Numerus can be assumed to be singular for either, that narrows possible choices down to 5 (unknown gender included)
Of course, one can always choose to use a wording for the "all genders unknown" case - not nice but functional.
Afaik, FreeCol does not support GENDER, thus it might be good to point to the places where supporting GENDER would make it better.
Can someone please provide a link to the tl version of this website?
I believe that filter.xml ("XML (Extensible Markup Language).") should be not require a translation, except perhaps for the full stop at the end that could be removed. I reckon that most languages do not have a translation for “XML”, so why not put the message under the optional category?
I've just gone through the whole german translation and found, besides some misspellings, misleading translations. This is probably due to translators not being aware of the exact gameplay mechanics of FreeCol.
As an example, the phrase "muskets and artillery" is not just an enumeration of random weapon types that can be translated by using any proper translation of the individual words. Instead, "muskets" are a specific type of equipment, and "artillery" is a specific type of unit. Wherever "artillery" appears in the original text, it should always be translated using the same term, and not by using "Kanone" in some cases and "Artillerie" in others.
Similarly, many other terms are loaded in that way as well - "Bells", in the FreeCol context, are not the things that make sound but an abstract type of goods being produced by units in the game, etc.
Can a note about this be added to the "translation notes" on this page?
You can put anything you find useful into Translating:FreeCol and in the message documentation. We don't have any terminology support here yet, so we have to use hints and notes in suitable places.
