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Contents

Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Fixing a typo in MediaWiki:multimail-special-emailaddresses-summary/en018:29, 6 December 2022
Request to add Manadonese in Translatewiki114:05, 6 December 2022
Interface admin request112:39, 6 December 2022
Support Berom language210:11, 6 December 2022
A REQUEST TO CREATE A WIKIPEDIA PLATFORM OR INTERFACE FOR MY LANGUAGE 'The Nzema '210:10, 6 December 2022
Support/Adding anew Language - Bari Language 210:10, 6 December 2022
Dates on ku:Special:Notifications906:55, 6 December 2022
HTML email014:52, 3 December 2022
Admins?308:25, 3 December 2022
Page deletion106:44, 1 December 2022
Change username119:43, 30 November 2022
Translation refused for four messages419:42, 30 November 2022
لماذا ميزة تلخيص سلسلة الرسائل معطلة، 112:00, 29 November 2022
Change username114:51, 28 November 2022
Rename request114:49, 28 November 2022
A DiscordWikiBot message always fails516:36, 25 November 2022
Renaming caused translations not to show up in production008:45, 25 November 2022
Optional OpenStreetMap messages show for translation007:27, 24 November 2022
MediaWiki:Feedback-terms/sl106:49, 24 November 2022
Link to mediawiki.org in a message120:45, 22 November 2022
First page
First page
Previous page
Previous page
Last page
Last page

How do I fix the typo in this message without causing unnecessary churn for translators? The typo is in the English source only, there should be no need to invalidate existing translations. Do I just change the source file in the extension repository or should the message be edited on-wiki to have translatebot synchronize it that way?

The typo is the use of "Your" in the second sentence, it should be "You".

Thanks in advance.

Mainframe98 talk18:29, 6 December 2022

Request to add Manadonese in Translatewiki

I would like to ask for add Manadonese (xmm) on translatewiki, especially in Latin script I'm currently developing Manadonese Wikipedia in the Incubator.

English name: Manadonese, Manado Malay Native name: Bahasa Manado ISO 639-3 code: xmm Directionality: LTR Script: Latin

~Thank you

Murasaki (talk)13:54, 6 December 2022

For now you can register yourself on your user page in a "#babel" box to show your language level. This will link your user page to the Portal:Xmm page. That portal page (and its parent category with its subcategories) is still displaying the "disabled" status banner. Do not remove these status from the portal, until a site admin enables the translation (You can check if it's enabled by looking at bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/xmm: it will show an error banner as long as it has not been enabled).

Verdy p (talk)14:05, 6 December 2022
 

Interface admin request

I'd like to have interface admin permissions so that I'll get access to messages which can contain raw HTML, and to help others to translate such messages.

Vlad5250 (talk)07:24, 4 December 2022

Sorry, but I'm reluctant about this. Several people have complained about your translations into languages you don't know, without coördinating with them properly.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)12:39, 6 December 2022
 

Support Berom language

I'd like to translate MediaWiki into the Berom language. The language code is bom

Ladyyop (talk)15:58, 15 November 2022

For now you can register yourself on your user page in a "#babel" box to show your language level. This will link your user page to the Portal:Bom page. That portal page (and its parent category with its subcategories) is still displaying the "disabled" status banner. Do not remove these status from the portal, until a site admin enables the translation (You can check if it's enabled by looking at bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/bom: it will show an error banner as long as it has not been enabled). But you can also register in the portal page in its list of "translators" if you intend to translate to that language or review translations.

Note that even if English Wikipedia states that Berom (or Birom) is spoken by about 1 million people in Nigeria (a very significant number), there's still no other Incubator wiki initiated (could be for Wikipedia or Wiktionary, depending on priorities: developping a Wikipedia in not the first goal for translations, but a Wiktionary would be useful for developing a common terminology or orthography; the alternative is to develop that in another Wikipedia, or in Wikisource if there are publications and books to transcribe as useful references to start building a Wikitionary: such wiki can then help create and maintain a good translation here for the MediaWiki UI or for other software projects; when the UI becomes translated, then it becomes useful to develop a Wikipedia, but IMHO it should be secondary and a Wiktionary should come first).

Note also that you can add translations in Wikidata for topic items or for lexems, without needing any wiki (and this will be easier later with Wikifunction whose focus will be to better support minority languages to generate some draft articles for other wikis, with help of Wikidata items, lexems, and custom linguistic "functions"). But if you start translating here and there's no Wiktionary and no other incubator or reference page, it will be useful to start translating a basic glossary (you'll get some links for that possibly posted on your user page by the site admin if it enables your language, and have registered it in the "babel" box of your user page).

Verdy p (talk)19:33, 15 November 2022
 

This is now enabled.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)10:11, 6 December 2022
 

A REQUEST TO CREATE A WIKIPEDIA PLATFORM OR INTERFACE FOR MY LANGUAGE 'The Nzema '

I am Valentine Badu a co founder of the Nzema language community in Ghana and l am also the team lead. We are a group of young Ghanaian volunteers who believe in free open knowledge and has come together with one goal,vision and mission to join the Wikipedia movement as we aim to present our language and culture to the world and also preserve our language for the future generation and also researchers for educational purposes in the internet space. We have our language code which is "nzi" and With this language code l humbly request that our language should be included in the various languages in Wikipedia platforms by creating a Wikipedia page for the Nzema language community in Ghana.l wish my humble request will meet at your point of favourable consideration. Thank you Valentine Badu

Valentine Badu (talk)21:44, 24 November 2022

For now you can register yourself on your user page in a "#babel" box to show your language level. This will link your user page to the Portal:Nzi page. That portal page (and its parent category with its subcategories) is still displaying the "disabled" status banner. Do not remove these status from the portal, until a site admin enables the translation (You can check if it's enabled by looking at bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/nzi: it will show an error banner as long as it has not been enabled). But you can also register in the portal page in its list of "translators" if you intend to translate to that language or review translations.

Note that even if English Wikipedia states that Nzema (or Nzima, Appolo) is spoken by about 400k people in the southern region split between Côte d'Ivoire and Ghana, there's still no other Incubator wiki initiated (could be for Wikipedia or Wiktionary, depending on priorities). That language is described as a Bia language even if it is also even if it seems to have borrowed a lot from Twi and Fante (the Akan macrolanguage itself has been disabled for lack of community involvement, but Twi has a much more native speakers). I don't know if it has borrowed also a lot from English or French in the modern usage (Cote d'Ivoire has many minority languages and uses English or French as a lingua franca and officially; Ghana uses mostly English; but nearest native language is apparently baoulé, in an area where French is more dominant in Côte d'Ivoire, whereas Twi and Fante are from Ghana). So I don't know to which level many terms will be borrowed today from either English or French (or if you have also contacts with other native speakers in Côte d'Ivoire and if you agree to accept possible dialectal variants).

Note about the language name: ISO 639 registered the name "Nzima" in Engluish; but English Wikipedia uses "Nzema" as the first name, and French uses "nzema" or "nzéma". I don't know if the name "Appolo" is used natively. Published books also uses the terms "Amanaya", "Zéma" and "Zimba"; they are referenced for example in texts at the Bibliothèque Nationale de France, with articles, papers, books written up to 2010 in French, English, Italian and Napolitan, and in language guides published by the Bureau of Ghana languages in Accra, and essays written in French in 2018 describing the relations of "Nzima" with "Akan" (Twi / Fante) languages.

Note also that you can add translations in Wikidata for topic items or for lexems, without needing any wiki (and this will be easier later with Wikifunction whose focus will be to better support minority languages to generate some draft articles for other wikis, with help of Wikidata items, lexems, and custom linguistic "functions"). But if you start translating here and there's no Wiktionary and no other incubator or reference page, it will be useful to start translating a basic glossary (you'll get some links for that possibly posted on your user page by the site admin if it enables your language, and have registered it in the "babel" box of your user page).

Verdy p (talk)08:03, 25 November 2022
 

This is now enabled.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)10:10, 6 December 2022
 

Support/Adding anew Language - Bari Language

Dear Administrators, could you please add the Bari language? There's a group of people who want to translate in this language. ISO 639-3: bfa

Local name: Bari Name in English: Bari Language Written: left to right Script: Latin script

Tochiprecious (talk)18:52, 2 December 2022

For now you can register yourself on your user page in a "#babel" box to show your language level. This will link your user page to the Portal:Bfa page. That portal page (and its parent category with its subcategories) is still displaying the "disabled" status banner. Do not remove these status from the portal, until a site admin enables the translation (You can check if it's enabled by looking at bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/bfa: it will show an error banner as long as it has not been enabled). But you can also register in the portal page in its list of "translators" if you intend to translate to that language or review translations.

Verdy p (talk)20:29, 2 December 2022
 

This is now enabled.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)10:10, 6 December 2022
 

I can't find where to translate dates on ku:Special:Notification. Can someone direct me to correct place? We use ku-latn on here for translations. Thank you!

Balyozxane (talk)23:04, 4 December 2022

For such cases:

  • Load the wiki page by using the parameter ?uselang=qqx appended at end of the page URL in the address bar of your webbrowser: instead of showing translated messages (or fallback messages in English), it shows the exact pagename of each message (the qqx is a private-use code used by MediaWiki for a fictive language, especially for that purpose)
  • Then use the search engine (at the top-right corner of the page) to locate the name of that message in the "MediaWiki" namespace.

Normally these messages are part of "echo" and "notification" messages; but they may also embed some generic date elements from Mediawiki core messages (notably for month names like "January", or abbreviation like "January" or "Jan", weekday names or abbreviations like "Monday" or "Mon", and timezone names): they are also used for dating posted messages in talk pages, or edits/action logged in the page or site history, or in various statistics page. Mediawiki provide date formatting via generic functions which can also be used via parser functions called within any wiki page. For example you can start at this message: January ("January") and follow the links found in the "Related" part of its doc page (showing table for the 12 months), and "Identical" part (for messages with identical month name in other translation projects).

You can use the search engine (or better the "translation search" which is also proposed at that time to improve the search and grouping by language) to locate these English messages like "January": their documentation page show a table in the "Related" box for month and weekday names/abbrevs (so tat you instantly see if they are completely and consistantly translated). Follow the link, and you're in the translate UI, and can see the documentation page of these messages.

Now if you want to adapt the date format, you can search for "DMY" or "YMD" or "M D, Y" in English, or whatever format you see in the Kurdish notification: locate the English message, then follow to Kurdish.

Verdy p (talk)23:24, 4 December 2022
Kurdish Wikipedia Screenshot of Echo (Uselang qqx)

@User:Verdy p uselang=qqx hasn't helped me (see screenshot). I have followed all the red links on Template:Identical/January and I'm hoping this will resolve my problem. If you know any other way, please do contact me.

Balyozxane (talk)01:18, 5 December 2022

Did you look at Template:Doc-months (which is included in the doc page for January) and Template:Doc-weekdays (also linked from the previous template and included in doc pages for weekday messages)? All these messages are part of the "MediaWiki core" message group (containing the ~500 most used messages of MediaWiki).

Verdy p (talk)01:30, 5 December 2022

Yeah, I did. Those are all translated. I found EDTF, maybe it has something to do with those?

Balyozxane (talk)09:26, 5 December 2022

According to your screenshot, these dates do not seem to be generated from MediaWiki messages, but from other internal libraries (part of PHP itself, or inside its own C/C++ dependencies?). If so, they are likely maintained in CLDR and imported later in those libraries, or integrated manually in those libraries. I have never seen these dates untranslated in languages I use. You may need to submit your question and screenshot in Phabricator, to know where they come, or if there's a need to modify the PHP code to support additional translations (e.g. if the PHP code just uses some PHP date formating function, such as those documented in the https://www.php.net/manual/en/datetime.formats.date.php extension or in https://www.php.net/manual/en/intldateformatter.format). I may be wrong, but EDTF was created much more recently than MediaWiki and PHP, and is unlikely to be used for those notifications and used as a dependency in MediaWiki.

Verdy p (talk)09:57, 5 December 2022
 
 
 
 

Most likely, the actual problem is that the date is coming from the Moment.js library. In theory, it would be possible to contribute translation to that library, but there seem to be a few issues with this. I've written a detailed bug report here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T324454

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)12:51, 5 December 2022

Amir E. Aharoni Thank you. I was planning to ask there but it's better coming from someone with more experience.

Balyozxane (talk)21:31, 5 December 2022

Do you say that I have no experience? (16 years past here, longer in MediaWiki/Wikimedia, and much longer ni many aspects of i18n since the end of the 1980's). I gave you general help until you posted a screenshot and suggested you to post your request on Phabricator (like what Amir just did for you), because we could not find it inside MediaWiki itself or on this translatewiki site so it was maintained elsewhere. Anyway the report made by Amir on Phabricator will follow its way because it is apparently coming from a client-side component developed indepenadlty but integrated in the UI without detecting that it would cause such issue.

There are possibly similar issues in other recently integrated components for the UI (like Echo here, or possibly user-created gadgets that are also developed independantly and not tested with as many locales as those supported by MediaWiki on the server side). I18n/L10n is a long and complex work needing patience, tests, user reports, and design discussions and decisions (that may still evolve over time, MediaWiki itself has many other of such unresolved issues, including for integrating emerging standards and evolving best practices)...

Verdy p (talk)21:50, 5 December 2022

@Verdy p I'm appalled that you would think that. I was saying I'm inexperienced, definitely not you. I'm so sorry If I came across as rude. I initially regretted not answering your message but I thought you wouldn't mind that. Thanks for all your help. It's very much appreciated.

Balyozxane (talk)06:55, 6 December 2022
 
 
 
 

HTML email

Yesterday I got an HTML-formatted watchlist notification email. The problem is that it still contains just the text, without any <a> tags, and while email clients usually find links and make them clickable in plain text emails, it’s not the case when the mail is HTML-formatted. So MediaWiki doesn’t make the diff links clickable for whatever reason, my client doesn’t make the diff links clickable because it’s HTML, meaning that I have to manually copy-paste the URL. Questions:

  • Why were HTML emails introduced in the first place?
  • Could you please fix it, either by adding the links, or by rolling back to plain text mails?
Tacsipacsi (talk)14:52, 3 December 2022

Neither the FAQ nor the Help page gives a way of finding and contacting an admin, so I'll ask here instead.

According to MediaWiki:Size-yottabytes/qqq, the units used are actually binary (powers of 1024) instead of the powers-of-ten implied by the message name's prefix. So the symbol (MediaWiki:Size-yottabytes) should be "$1 YiB" instead of "$1 YB". An admin is required to make this change because this "sensitive" page is otherwise protected. The same holds for the rest of the series: MediaWiki:Size-zettabytes ($1 ZiB), MediaWiki:Size-exabytes ($1 EiB), MediaWiki:Size-petabytes ($1 PiB), and MediaWiki:Size-terabytes ($1 TiB). The remaining ones are already fixed: MediaWiki:Size-gigabytes ($1 GiB), MediaWiki:Size-megabytes ($1 MiB), and MediaWiki:Size-kilobytes ($1 KiB).

Urhixidur (talk)13:38, 22 November 2022

Usually, this page right here is a good place to contact the translatewiki admins.

However, this change won't be made by translatewiki admins on wiki pages within translatewiki. English source messages must be changed in Git. Technically, I can do it (and so can you), but I'm not entirely sure that the proposal is correct, as I've never got into the deep details of data unit names. In addition, these messages are many years old, and I'm reluctant to change old messages unless I'm very certain the change is good.

I therefore recommend discussing this change in Phabricator.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)13:57, 22 November 2022
 

I also agree: these keys are named using prefixes for powers of ten, so the abbreviated formats should also use power of tens (without any "i"). If some project decides to use powers of two, they'll need to use other message keys ("Size-kibibytes" and so on) and associated keys for abbreviated formats ("$1 kiB") will be needed as well and translated separately. There's certainly a problem in projects that use these units, without being entirely clear (when in fact they shuold have use the other units).

But isolately, on these messages used independantly of a clear scope, we cannot change anything here. It's up to projects using these messages to update their code to reference the correct units.

Anyway, I added a "Related" template in the doc to link these messages and present them in a table (showing powers of 2 for memory or file sizes, and powers of 10 for bit rates). This allows poiting to these messages and update them consistantly. I tried to see if there were messages naming sizes in "kibibytes" or "kibibits" for powers of 2, but did not find any of them.

Verdy p (talk)20:31, 22 November 2022
 

The pages without language code are only used in translatewiki.net. The remaining units can be overridden here as well.

If the request is to change these in MediaWiki itself, then it's like Amir said. People were revolting against using the correct units so in English they follow the common convention. Translations in other languages are free to use the correct units.

Nike (talk)08:25, 3 December 2022
 

Page deletion

I created MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-explain/pl by mistake and later tagged it for deletion, but for some reason this page doesn't show up (just for me?) in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. Just in case, I'm also requesting its deletion here. Thank you,

Peter Bowman (talk)21:57, 30 November 2022

Deleted now.

Raymond06:44, 1 December 2022
 

Change username

Hi dear all, I want to change my username from Patriot Kur to Patriot Kor. The difference is in just one letter. U will replace with O. Thanks in advance.

Patriot Kur (talk)20:16, 28 November 2022

Done Done

Raymond19:43, 30 November 2022
 

Translation refused for four messages

My translations for the following four messages are consistently refused:

The error message that appears for them is: 'Error durante le publication del traduction: You do not have permission to edit this page because it contains raw HTML which can be modified to affect all visitors.'

McDutchie (talk)14:36, 28 November 2022

The reason is documented in the qqq of these messages.

It's strange that they are refused for you, however. You appear to be an administrator, and I thought that administrators are supposed to be able to edit them. And I'm not even sure how are they protected—it appears to be done not using usual page protection, AbuseFilter, or site configuration.

I guess that User:Raymond or User:Nike know the answer.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)11:59, 29 November 2022

AFAIK editing these messages, which can contain raw HTML, is limited to the interface admin group.

@McDutchie: Please write the translation here and I will add them for you.

Raymond14:22, 29 November 2022

Yet, all those other translations were somehow added by the translators themselves. Perhaps this restriction is a newer thing.

Might be a good idea to stop uneditable messages showing up in the list of messages to translate -- it's quite frustrating to type a translation only to have it refused, particularly as you end up doing that repeatedly as those messages keep showing up.

Anyway...

Thanks.

McDutchie (talk)15:27, 29 November 2022

Done Done

Raymond19:42, 30 November 2022
 
 
 
 

لماذا ميزة تلخيص سلسلة الرسائل معطلة،

مشاهدته صيانه لااستطيع تفعيلHamdisaif هناك خلال Phab:T245109

Hamdisaif (talk)23:56, 28 November 2022

Sorry, I don't understand what is the problem. What are you trying to do?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)12:00, 29 November 2022
 

Change username

Hello i want to Change my name from Amjad Khan to Af420, because i want to have the similar name on both platforms. Thank you so much.

Amjad Khan (talk)22:27, 27 November 2022

Done Done

McDutchie (talk)14:51, 28 November 2022
 

Rename request

Hi,

I'd like to rename my username to "Adjoka", to reflect my username across other wikis.

Adjoka (talk)17:44, 26 November 2022

Done Done

McDutchie (talk)14:49, 28 November 2022
 

A DiscordWikiBot message always fails

This message is marked as wrong:

https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&showMessage=discordwikibot-configuring-status-streaming&group=discordwikibot&language=he&filter=&optional=1&action=translate

I see these errors:

Incorrect number of plural forms in {1:שנייה אחת|{1}. It must have 4 plural forms. Currently 2 plural forms are given.
Incorrect number of plural forms in {0:דקה אחת|{0}. It must have 4 plural forms. Currently 2 plural forms are given.

I suspect that the plural forms in the translations are parsed incorrectly by the validator: The variables in this format look like {1}, and the validator appears to think that the closing curly brace of {1} is the closing curly brace of the whole plural expression. I might be wrong, however.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:30, 24 November 2022
Edited by author.
Last edit: 10:09, 24 November 2022

Your syntax is just wrong. You cannot put placeholders {0} or {1} inside the "plural selectors" starting by "{0:" or "{1:".

It should work if you write it as

התגובה האחרונה מהסטרימים: {0} {0:דקה אחת|דקות|דקות|דקות} {1} {1:שנייה אחת|שניות|שניות|שניות} מוקדם יותר.

Why did you place these placeholders inside when they can be obviously left outside (exactly like in English)?

You tried a syntax that looks like this in English: {0:{0} second|{0} second|{0} second|{0} seconds} instead of simply {0} {0:second|second|second|seconds}.

It looks syntaxically correct, but the pywikibot-specific form of the plural selector cannot parse placeholders inside each of the listed form (yes this looks like a bug in the parser, but I'm not even sure that pywikibot would accept it; such possibility is supported by the Mediawiki syntax for plural forms. Even if the message validator is fixed, I'm not sure that pywikibot will accept it and won't have the same "bug" if it searches for the first closing brace after "{0:" or "{1:" with a regexp (which cannot "count" the embedding levels of braces to determine which is the correct closing brace that terminates the selector, so that it can split the result on pipes to get the list of plural forms).

Verdy p (talk)09:38, 24 November 2022

They cannot "be obviously left outside". Your suggestion is grammatically wrong in the Hebrew language. Different numbers need different word order. Stop guessing things about the grammar of languages that you don't know.

Is it documented anywhere that {1} cannot be used within plural clauses in this format?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)10:06, 24 November 2022

I'm not "guessing" at all, I analyse what you tried to do. I've not made any assumption at all about Hebrew (and I'm perfectly aware that it needs 4 clauses for plural forms and that languages may need to change the word order depending on numeric values).

I also note that you wanted to remove the placeholder for the 1st form (zero in Hebrew), as if you had written this in English (which is also not accepted by the validator when I try it on the "en-x-lolcat" locale for tests):

 {0:zero second|{0} second|{0} second|{0} seconds}

But to support it, pywikibot cannot use a basic regexp to parse it, it needs a LALR (or recursive) parser (like the Mediawiki parser) that can parse the string delimited by either "}" or "|", and then use a counter to determine the embedding level of braces. Such thing would be needed as well in English if we wanted to use a word like "zero" or "no" instead of displaying the numeric value as a placeholder at a fixed position.

We could have also tried to use this in English and French (even if they have 2 forms for plurals):

 {0:{0} or more|several}
 {0:{0} ou plus|plusieurs}

And here also this is not accepted for the same reason, so this is not specific at all to Hebrew.

So there's a need to fix it not just in the TWN valiadtor, but also in pywikibot using the string? If this does not work in pywikibot, you need to find a translation that will force the unconditional inclusion of placeholders outside plural forms.

Also we should find where that string is used in pywikibot to know how it parses it. Fixing that in TWN's parser won't have an effect if it's not corerct in pywikibot. If it is fixed in pywikibot, then a solution can be found in TWN that mimics it.

But if pywikibot is not fixed, may be it could change the format of the string, to use for example "$0" instead of "{0}" for placeholders, while keeping "{0: ... }" for plural forms (this would require no fix in TWN itself), so that these placeholders can be safely inserted inside plural clauses.

And please keep polite Amir, you've made and insisted multiple times about things you absolutely don't know in other languages (from the perception you have in your own country), and also enforced your position abusely! And you made just here another false assumption about my own knowledge. I have documented and described plural rules in many places, and even asserted many times that word order could not be assumed in sentences, including for plurals, or other grammatical or semantic features, or letter cases and case conversions (e.g. Turkish), or punctuation (notably in Armenian, Greek, Spanish), or spacing (notably Souteastern Asian languages)...

Verdy p (talk)10:07, 24 November 2022

If you don't know the answer, don't write an answer, especially such a long one. I don't have time to explain you all your mistakes, I'll just note two obvious ones:

  1. The first form is not zero in Hebrew.
  2. This project has absolutely nothing to do with pywikibot.

People repeatedly complain that they are confused and intimidated by your long and wrong responses. This is seriously harmful. The next time you do this, I'll block you to prevent further disruption.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)08:24, 25 November 2022

Sorry but I thought this "discordwikibot" was an addon based on "pywikibot". This does not change what I said, just substitute the word. There's by evidence no "disruption" as you've perfectly understood. But why do you threaten so many peoples to take such position, even when they show you that you are wrong and give proofs?

But now that the fact this but is written in Csharp makes things even worse and we have a documention about this (you asked for such reference, this is one!)

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/base-types/composite-formatting

Which explicitly says that format strings used inside placeholders (themselves surrounded by braces) do NOT support nesting braces for embedding other placeholders:

Interpreting nested braces isn't supported. [sic!]

So as was perfectly right since my first sentence above:

You cannot put placeholders {0} or {1} inside the "plural selectors" starting by "{0:" or "{1:"

There's a discussion about this in the section "Escaping braces" of that documentation article. (there's an example showing how "{{{0:D}}}" is parsed by the stadnard format provider, and it does not work as intended, generating a literal "{" then formatting the variable at position [0] with the non-working format "D}" (which results from unescaping the first two "}") and then outputing the remaining "}").

There's no work-around given (by Microsoft in its standard docs for C#) to do all that in a *single* localization string. The default "FormatProvider" used by "String.Format()" in C# does not tolerate/support that.

The only solution for that case is to use another "FormatProvider" class, to change how placeholders are parsed. And now there's no standard in C#, many packages trying to implement plural rules (with many "solutions" working only for a few language or using bad assumptions based on English or another alternate language (I've seen packages written to support Russian, or Hebrew, with a fallback to English, but not any one working across languages, and none using a well defined syntax supporting embedded plural forms inside the same localized string. It is possible to write one in C#, e.g. using the Mediawiki syntax, implementing such a "FormatProvider" class (that's what several packages written in C# to support CLDR-based localisation are doing, or they simply use ICU ported or interfaced into C#).

But if I closely look at Microsoft article, one way to do that would be to use "double-braces" escaping for placeholders embedded inside placeholders, may be something like:

{0:zero second|{{0}} second|{{0}} second|{{0}} seconds}

That's something to try... if it works in the bot and if it really implements a "custom field-formater" for plural rules because the *parsed* string "zero second|{0} second|{0} second|{0} seconds" (after unescaping) containing pipes is not a standard field formater; and then only fix in TWN's validator (which needs to properly count the embedding level of braces) and document somewhere on this wiki. But I fear that what we'll get will be that there will be visible braces. Anyway this "double-brace escaping" (which apparently exists in C# for compatiblity with "interpolated strings") would be very unfriendly for translators (how many braces we must use depending on context!), and writing a "IFormatProvider" would be safer than trying to use a "ICustomFormatter" (where "format strings" are not supposed to contain any brace or any text in a human language, just basic codes like "D" for dates or "F2" for floatting points with 2 decimals of precision; a "custom formatter" is normally used to format another type of value, such as a complex number, instead of using their default "ToString" method if there's one for that type).

I don't know how the bot's author chose that syntax to try supporting plural formaters, but that syntax natively cannot support what you think would be correct, and we cannot progress without asking to these developers what they intend to do. But for now, there's no way to embed any placeholder in clauses of existing "custom format string" used for noting plural forms used by this bot, and so no real ned to fix TWN's validator to try supporting something that actually does not work for now, without knowing what will be the final solution. But we may still fix TWN's validator so that it correctly pairs opening/closing braces (this will still work with most strings using "double-braces" escaping described above, as they should be paired as well in any valid translatable message)

It seems that DiscordWikiBot uses such a custom format provider called "SmartFormat" but I don't know which version is used. See for example https://github.com/axuno/SmartFormat/pull/322 for a recent change to support languages (like Japanese, or sometimes even in English where the terms to translate, e.g. "you are", do not vary with plural in English but are varying in other languages) with a single plural form (this requires a change in the Wikibot project, to disable the "autodetection" of the custom format (which requires the presence of at last one '|' pipe), or specifying the name of the "plural:" formater explicitly when there's a single form (i.e. {0:plural:form1|form2} or just {0:plural:form1} or even {0:plural:}). This change is very recent (8 days ago in that repository for "SmartFormat", so it is not part of the last version 3.2.0 release 2 months ago) and I don't know if "SmartFormat" implements or supports the "double-braces" escaping (documented by Microsoft for the default format provider for "String.Format()" in C#) or if it's still applied by default (in the "String" class) before calling any custom format provider (this seems to be the case according to a discussion in closed bug #322 and its related bug #320 linked at start of this paragraph). A comment in the commit log for closing bug #322 recommends that "autodetection" be turned off, and it will soon be off by default (in which case you'll need to name the "plural:" formatter in ALL translated messages, and the legacy syntax "{0:form1|form2}" will no longer work and all translated messages for that Wikibot using plural forms will have to be updated here in ALL languages! This would also affect other projects supported in TWN written in C# or in other programming languages based on .Net/CLI, and that chose to use "SmartFormat").

And sorry if this looks too long for you, but this is an ongoing search for a working solution (that needs to be documented when it works).

Verdy p (talk)12:30, 25 November 2022
 
 
 
 
 

Renaming caused translations not to show up in production

There are at least two highly-visible messages that were showing in English in the Hebrew Wikipedia this week, even though they were translated months ago:

Both of them were renamed on November 15, and I suspect that this is the reason why the translations weren't properly deployed.

The change of the keys was done in this Gerrit change. I guess that the translated keys were renamed after the deployment branch was created.

Can anything be done to prevent this in the future?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)08:45, 25 November 2022

Optional OpenStreetMap messages show for translation

I see two messages for translation at https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=out-osm-site&language=he&filter=%21translated&action=translate :

  1. Osm:Accounts.edit.public_editing.enabled_link
  2. Osm:Accounts.edit.contributor_terms.link

They are marked as optional in the configuration, in groups/OpenStreetMap/OpenStreetMap.yaml:

TAGS:
  optional:
    - html.dir
    - accounts.edit.openid.link
    - accounts.edit.public_editing.enabled_link
    - accounts.edit.contributor_terms.link

I added these keys a few weeks ago, and I even think that at some point they were correctly configured as optional. But now they appear as not optional. What's wrong? Did I make a mistake in the configuration? Is there a glitch in configuration functionality?

Thanks :)

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:27, 24 November 2022

MediaWiki:Feedback-terms/sl

Please update the translation of MediaWiki:Feedback-terms/sl as follows:

Razumem, da podatek o uporabniškem agentu vsebuje natančne podatke o mojem brskalniku in različici operacijskega sistema ter da bo javno prikazan skupaj z mojo povratno informacijo.

It's a style and grammar improvement. Thank you.

Eleassar (talk)02:22, 24 November 2022

Thanks, done.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)06:49, 24 November 2022
 

Link to mediawiki.org in a message

It's the first time, as I remember, that I see a link to mediawiki.org in a message. MediaWiki:Twocolconflict-preference-enabled. Shouldn't translation be without links? In order to respect the choice of a single Wiki to have links that point out or not?

Pierpao (talk)12:47, 22 November 2022

The namespace prefixe "MediaWiki:" is where translated messages are loaded on all wikis using MetaWiki. It is not goring to Mediawiki.org. You make a confusion with the "mw:" interwiki prefix (and anyway, that prefix is usually not used: when a message needs to reference the MediaWiki.org website, it uses a plain URL (This is generally limited to a few links for shwoing the documentation of Mediawiki or getting support for it).

Verdy p (talk)20:45, 22 November 2022
 
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