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Contents

Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Translation administrator, administrator, bureaucrat412:05, 2 February 2023
"You can translate it in minutes!"315:25, 1 February 2023
Wikimedia:Wikiauthbot-*/sr should be moved to Wikimedia:Wikiauthbot-*/sr-ec115:07, 31 January 2023
Replacing the discussion system513:32, 31 January 2023
Request for the enabling of Hassaniya in TranslateWiki.209:57, 30 January 2023
MediaWiki:Tutorial-popup-text2/en221:55, 28 January 2023
Request for the enabling of Hassaniya in TranslateWiki. (2)001:48, 28 January 2023
Translations that don't use plurals are marked outdated218:35, 26 January 2023
Remotetasks218:51, 25 January 2023
Request to enable: Hindko418:37, 25 January 2023
ماهي المواضيع 014:37, 25 January 2023
Unresolved message in Kartographer213:14, 25 January 2023
User:Ice bulldog and machine translations308:45, 21 January 2023
Optional OpenStreetMap messages show for translation119:45, 20 January 2023
Enable aae: Arbërisht1014:51, 11 January 2023
Deprecated message groups612:39, 11 January 2023
Mr Vandalism I suppose119:02, 9 January 2023
Communicating that plural is now supported210:25, 9 January 2023
When the change is applied on each Wikipedia?509:59, 9 January 2023
Pywikibot:Cosmetic changes-append/en914:28, 7 January 2023
First pagePrevious pageNext pageLast page

Translation administrator, administrator, bureaucrat

Hi, I have now submitted quite a few translations, and ask if I could be a translation administrator, maybe my efforts are enough too for administrator or even bureaucrat permissions

Justman10000 (talk)12:02, 24 January 2023

Why do you need it? Are you involved with user support, vandalism cleanup, or deleting unnecessary pages?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)09:33, 25 January 2023

I ask for translation administrator, not administrator!

Justman10000 (talk)23:07, 1 February 2023
 

I would like to oppose this. This person does have an unnecessary hostile communication style, as you can see here and on my talk page.

TMg (talk)08:24, 2 February 2023

The TranslationAdmin right does not give additional rights for translating any page or message. It's only for marking new wiki pages to be translated by the translate UI, or to manage incoming projects to be translated in the Translate UI.

Translation admins should just check that the formatting used is minimized, so that translators won't be worried about syntaxic tricks or the presesentations. They should also be aware of requirements for RTL versus LTR languages and of the requirements for many languages (notably not assume an English punctuation, including for whitespaces). They should prepare pages with minimized translation units, should avoid placing long list of items into the same translation unit (especially when the list is evolutive, so that new, modified or deleted items can be easily manages without having to review the whole list again). They should avoid creating "patchwork" messages (translations should keep sentences unbroken, using translation variables if needed for embedded fragments).

TranslationAdmins should also test their pages submitted for translation, by making a full translation to at least one language and experiment what other translators will see and will have to work with for all other languages. But for that work, these translations will still require review by peer translators: a TranslationAdmin has no specific privilege to force a translation against other translators.

As well TranslationAdmins should not arbitrarily alter constantly the format of the source page to be translated, and should be doing the "dirty work" of adapting technical/syntaxic changes themselves in all languages for which there are existing translations, to minimize the work to be done again by other translators (that's why it's important to perform a full translation to at least one language, using translate UI like every other translators will do). This means that a translator admin MUST be at minima bilignual (knowing English correctly but also another language natively and be trained to what other non-Latin scripts need, notably Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese or Japanese, Thai, and be ware about very different punctuations MUST be used in Spanish, Greek, Armenian, Arabic, Chinese or Arabic, and different capitalization rules even in the Latin script).

Even for developers of projects to be translated here, they may not be good translation admins if they just know English and are unable to work with contents in other languages. They should work with people that are enough trained with internationalisation issues and not consider that requirements for other languages are "not needed" jsut because they feel this would be too complex for them to maintain (this is difficult only because they don't understand the issues or did train themselves): if this is the case they should work in cooperation with other translation admins that can be assisting proxies between developers and translators to explain and find a solution that will help each other.

Verdy p (talk)12:03, 2 February 2023
 
 

"You can translate it in minutes!"

MediaWiki:Cx-uls-relevant-languages-panel-message/en has "You can translate it in minutes!" in it. Should this "minutes" be taken as 1-10 minutes, 1-30 minutes, or longer, or just "short, unspecified amount of time"? Could it be rephrased more clearly? I feel like 1-10 minutes would be too short even to review the translation of a moderately long article, not to mention revise. (I'm thinking about Wikipedia articles, but I'd imagine other wikis could have even longer articles, in which case even "a short time" might be unrealistic in general.)

MediaWiki:Cx-uls-relevant-languages-panel-message/ja is translated literally and gives the impression of "no longer than 1-10 minutes".

Note that not all languages have the idiomatic usage of "in seconds" and "in a minute" to mean "a short, unspecified amount of time". If the particular message is written that way, it would be helpful to have that clarified in MediaWiki:Cx-uls-relevant-languages-panel-message/qqq.

whym08:35, 31 January 2023

The time it takes to make a translation can vary a lot depending on the length of the article, how much the initial machine translation has to be edited, and whether the user is aiming for a complete translation or just a starting point (to be improved in further edit sessions). The idea to convey is that it is possible to make a meaningful contribution in a "short, unspecified amount of time". Of course people can dedicate more time and make a longer/better initial contribution, but if you have 15-30min available it is possible to make a small but valuable contribution by translating a short article or expand an existing one with a short section. I hope this context is helpful to convey this message in the way that best suits your language.

Pginer (talk)09:23, 31 January 2023

Thanks for clarifying. It looks like there are two main things to say in it. 1) We invite you to translate it. 2) It [the translation] won't take a long time. For me, breaking it down like that would make it easier to translate. Would a similar rephrasing make the English message awkward?

In any case, I'll probably avoid mentioning "minutes" in my translation because it will make it unnecessarily concrete in any phrasing I can think of in Japanese.

whym09:18, 1 February 2023

You are right on the information points to deliver. However, we try to make the message short and positive. For example, "It won't be long and boring" seems less encouraging than "It would be fast and fun". Translation removes many of the barriers required to make a great contribution (you don't need to master all policies, just to write the same thing you are reading in another language you know). So I think it is appropriate to provide a bit of encouragement in this case.

Pginer (talk)15:25, 1 February 2023
 
 
 

Wikimedia:Wikiauthbot-*/sr should be moved to Wikimedia:Wikiauthbot-*/sr-ec

Subject says it. The */sr messages are not editable, telling users to edit */sr-ec instead. I'm not being allowed to rename them either.

I don't know if there is any other project still using */sr; the search features don't seem to make it easy to find out.

McDutchie (talk)13:41, 31 January 2023

Actually "/sr-ec" is an old legacy bogus code used ONLY on some Wikimedia sites, it should be "/sr-cyrl". Many things ieven in Wikiemdia wikis are using "sr-cyrl" instead, as much as possible, but the conversion is not terminated. Then ""/sr" is still correct because it is the default script used most of the time. The creation of Serbian in the 1990's was a nightmare, whereas the deletion of "/sh" in ISO 639 (but not BCP47) was a severe error. Unfortunately at that time, ISO 639 was a complete mess, ISO 15924 did not even exist at that time, as well as ISO 639-3 with the concept of macrolanguages, and we were operating with an antique version of BCP 47. Since RFC 4646 and ISO 639-3 all is clear, and "sr-ec" (a complete invention by some uninformed Wikimedia users that did not care about standards) should no longer be used at all.

Verdy p (talk)15:07, 31 January 2023
 

Replacing the discussion system

As you know, translatewiki.net is using LiquidThreads for discussions. It is an extension that hasn't been developed in about 10 years, is barely maintained and broken to some extend. This has been known for years, and I have been thinking of replacements.

Now it seems StructuredDiscussions (née Flow) is going to face the same fate: no longer actively developed nor maintained.

There is a new system in the works, called DiscussionTools, which builds on top of the existing talk pages. Who knows, maybe DiscussionTools will face the same fate in the future, but that should not be a such a big deal, since the existing talk pages keep working, which cannot be said for LiquidThreads or StructuredDiscussions, if those extensions are removed.

What do you think about enabling DiscussionTools on this wiki with the eventual goal of archiving the current LiquidThreads discussions as read-only? There are probably hundreds of pages using LiquidThreads, so some bot activity may be needed to archive them.

I think feature-wise we would not lose anything important if we switch over. With discussion tools we would gain visual editor support.

Links:

Nike (talk)11:46, 12 January 2023

Yes! Excellent idea.

I liked Flow, especially for its excellent mobile support. Unfortunately, it's probably doomed, so there's no point in discussing it.

The DiscussionTools extension offers a good balance of the classic talk pages with some new features that one would expect on a modern website.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)19:49, 12 January 2023
 

I would be very happy for us to switch to DiscussionTools – I have used it since it first became available in beta on Wikimedia projects, and the experience has been both pleasant and intuitive. It's seamless integration with "ordinary-style" talk pages is also a major plus. So yeah, I'd be very happy if we switched.

Jon Harald Søby (talk)17:11, 17 January 2023
 

Feature-wise, is it possible to link to a particular reply in a thread with DiscussionTools? I realize it might not be the most important feature, but I remember using it a few times here, and it was handy. (It's nice not having to dig history to find a diff corresponding to a reply).

whym08:53, 31 January 2023

Not currently, but it's a planned feature: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T275729

Nike (talk)09:20, 31 January 2023
 

I agree with such a switch. Some temporary pain would be worth it.

McDutchie (talk)13:32, 31 January 2023
 

Request for the enabling of Hassaniya in TranslateWiki.

I'd like to be able to create a Hassaniya Wikipedia and for that I need to localise it. I've provided arguments already on Meta Wikimedia. Thank you!

Tidsaleh (talk)19:12, 27 January 2023

See Portal:Mey (disabled for now, I cannot enable it myself, its activation status can be checked at the bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/mey). Also for now the existing Wikipedia Incubator portal is just an empty page, and there's no other known wiki natively supporting the language or containing related contents.

Note that in Senegal, there's an orthography based on the Latin script (like also the Wolof language, which influences Hassanya there), officialized by a national decree for a recognized minority. That variant (officially named Hassaniya in the Senegalese decree published in French, and spoken notably in the Goxumbaac or Gokhou-Mbathie quarter, to the North-West of the the national capital Saint-Louis) is still not well studied even though it is reported to be in high development in Senegal where it is also understood by local wolof speakers: it is missing in Glottolog/Linguist List, and not encoded separately in ISO 639/BCP47 with the two scripts (may be it could get a separate language code if efforts are made for it in Senegal if the contacts with wolof and French speakers, and the sedentarisation of former nomadic Maure peoples where they originated, has significantly modified it).

Elsewhere, most Hassanya people are in Southern Morocco, Western Sahara, Southwestern Algeria and Northern Mali, using the Arabic script for some poestry, but the language is mostly transmitted orally. Hassanya is considered part of Maghrebi Arabic, but it's a bit creolized with influences of Atlantic languages (mostly Wolof but as well other Mauresque languages), Berber languages, plus some Spanish (reports are saying that it reached the Canary Island, but I don't know its current vitality there, whereas it has reached Continental Europe in Spain and France, and other Maghebri countries with modern migrations, but their local populations don't seem to use it actively).

Verdy p (talk)01:29, 28 January 2023
 

This is now enabled.

I've added a list of recommended projects for translation to your user page.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)09:57, 30 January 2023
 

MediaWiki:Tutorial-popup-text2/en

Edited by author.
Last edit: 21:55, 28 January 2023

Because of grammatical differences, I find this line very difficult to translate in Bengali. The whole sentence is: "You can turn previews on and off in the search preferences." (You can test this new feature on pt, id & ruwiki, when you first use search feature this popups) However instead of whole sentence, half sentance was given. Current Bengali translation looks like this: "আপনি অনুসন্ধানে পূর্বরূপ চালু ও বন্ধ করতে পারেন পছন্দ." but should be "আপনি অনুসন্ধান পছন্দে পূর্বরূপ চালু ও বন্ধ করতে পারেন"

My request is instead of half sentence, give full sentence to translate please. Something like "You can turn previews on and off in the search [$1 preferences]." (also include ".", so i can use correct character in my language, not every language use . as full stop)

Then, this. In Bengali "In Wikimedia Commons" will come first and "View more" go second. See this "I rice eat" example to see what I mean.

Thanks.

Good catch! I reported the first issue at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T328108

About "View more", I'm not sure that it can be fixed in translatable messages, because these things appear separately. If I understand correctly, "View more" is a title of a list, which can (probably) have more than one item.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:33, 27 January 2023

Thanks for the report :)

 
 

Request for the enabling of Hassaniya in TranslateWiki. (2)

Edited by another user.
Last edit: 01:47, 28 January 2023
Tidsaleh (talk)19:12, 27 January 2023

Translations that don't use plurals are marked outdated

Toki Pona doesn't change words for plurals, so all the Toki Pona translations of strings that use {{PLURAL}} in English don't use {{PLURAL}} in Toki Pona. But this seems to make the strings all show up in the Outdated tab. Is there a way to get them out of there so we only see genuinely outdated strings?

Tbodt (talk)03:09, 26 January 2023

I recommend simply adding PLURAL with one value most of the time.

Occasionally, PLURAL used in non-trivial ways where the text is totally different for different numbers, and it's good to keep the automatic validation for such cases.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:18, 26 January 2023

I see, thanks.

Tbodt (talk)18:35, 26 January 2023
 
 

Remotetasks

What are Test Questions? Why are Test Questions important? What if a Test Question is unfair? What are Quiz Mode and Work Mode? What is accuracy? Which jobs affect my accuracy? What can I find on my Contributor Dashboard homepage? What are Levels? Index of Appen Terminology Why are contributor accounts removed from the platform?[translatewiki ]

Hamdisaif (Contribute)23:26, 8 December 2022

Sorry, I don't understand your questions. What are you trying to do, and what doesn't work?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)12:42, 10 December 2022

How can work remotely on small tasks like translation as so on? That is what I mean in the previously!

Hamdisaif (talk)18:51, 25 January 2023
 
 

Request to enable: Hindko

I would like to request that either of the codes hno or hnd be enabled for translation on TranslateWiki. The two codes for this language are "Northern Hindko" and "Southern Hindko," however the dialects of the language do not map clearly to this geographic distinction. Awankari, a dialect of the south, may be grouped with Kohati, a dialect of the north, while Peshawari and Abottabadi Hindko are spoken at roughly the same latitude. It is preferable that one code is used—it does not matter much which—to support a translation which may represent the features of the language common across the various dialects. Something I noticed when looking at the portal pages for these codes is that they each have an incubator Wikipedia, on which there is a single page which is identical between the two.

Resources and references: Hindko in Kohat and Peshawar is a paper which offers a helpful overview of Hindko dialect geography. The dialect it does not touch on, Hazara Hindko (dialect of Abottabad), is covered extensively in Halil Toker's Hindko grammar and in Elena Bashir's descriptive grammar. Hazara Hindko may be considered "northern" for what it is worth and is the most spoken dialect if that is any reason to pick one code over the other. The most comprehensive account of the Awankari dialect is Lahndi phonology by Hardev Bahri. There are a few dictionaries of Hindko, most only in print, but Peshawar based Gandhara Hindko board offers one as a mobile app. (I have a few of their Hindko apps on my phone and I suspect they just use the Urdu language code due to lack of support from Android. The number of resources online for the language is definitely ahead of where various tech platforms expect it to be.)

I will give full disclosure and point out my background is Punjabi, which is a language mutually intelligible with Hindko (in a similar sense to Norwegian and Danish by analogy). I have translated the Lexeme Forms message group in a way that is grammatical in both languages in order to support the Hindko templates there, however, this was only possible due to the message group being small and domain specific enough to do things like avoid feminine nouns entirely (they inflect differently between the two). It should be possible to attract more translators once the language is available as an option.

Bgo eiu (talk)03:10, 25 January 2023

OK, for the sake of simplicity, I'm going to add it as "hno", and with the autonym "ہندکو". If anyone ever asks to distinguish them, then we'll figure something out.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)09:41, 25 January 2023

Excellent, thank you! I am glad it isn't too much trouble to make this work.

Bgo eiu (talk)11:52, 25 January 2023

This is now enabled.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)15:31, 25 January 2023

Note that [hno] (Northern Hindko) is for Hazara Hindko (also called Kagani or Kaghani), whereas [hnd] (Southern Hindko) is grouping the four dialects of Attock, Kohat, Central Peshawar and Rural Peshawar (distinguished in Glottolog and the Linguist List, but not in ISO 639).

Both use the same Arabic script, and if they seem to be written the same, that's probably because of minor phonologic differences, and the written form in Arabic may not mark these differences explicitly with diacritics for actual vowels or voewl qualities, or alterations of consonants. The difference may be more evident in the spoken language.

The current autonyms written in Arabic script also still does not show these distinctions between [hno] and [hnd]; as well Hindko languages seem to form a continuum, both being part of the Lahnda macrolanguage (in its Northeastern branch according to Glottolog) in ISO 639, that macrolanguage also covering the more distant Khetrani (actually a Sindhic language), also written with the Arabic script.

Verdy p (talk)18:24, 25 January 2023
 
 
 
 

ماهي المواضيع

محرر== صفحتي ويكيبديا ==<refhamdikhalidsaif Hamdisaif (talk) 14:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)=/>

ماهي "المواضيع والمهام" التي يمكن أقوم بترجمتها أو تصنيفها أو وصفها او كتابتها أو تعديلها أو رفعها أو نشرها لمساعده الاخرين على صفحتي والحصول بالمقابل لقاء عملي؟ Hamdisaif(ت ع م)

Hamdisaif (talk)14:37, 25 January 2023

Unresolved message in Kartographer

Hello. Why is the message group Kartographer listed in Slovenian message statistics as having one untranslated message but there is no untranslated message available when I access it? How can this be resolved?

Eleassar (talk)12:52, 25 January 2023

There seems to be outdated optional message: https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=ext-kartographer&language=sl&filter=%21translated&action=translate&optional=1

I recommend deleting that message, since there is no customization there.

Nike (talk)12:57, 25 January 2023

Thank you. I don't mind deleting that message.

Eleassar (talk)13:14, 25 January 2023
 
 

User:Ice bulldog and machine translations

Hi! There is still incorrect machine translation in edits of User:Ice bulldog (previously known as DDPAT): 1, 2, 3 User was warned countless times about his actions: 1, 2. Please react accordingly. Thanks.

Renvoy (talk)22:39, 19 January 2023

All of these were many months ago, and he hasn't edited at all since October.

Nevertheless, because there were multiple complaints about that user, I removed his translator right.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)08:12, 20 January 2023

Hi! I still see this user in the list of translators, is okay?

Renvoy (talk)22:18, 20 January 2023

Which one? At Portal:uk? That page can be edited by anyone. It's not a big deal.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)08:45, 21 January 2023
 
 
 

Optional OpenStreetMap messages show for translation

I see two messages for translation at https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=out-osm-site&language=he&filter=%21translated&action=translate :

  1. Osm:Accounts.edit.public_editing.enabled_link
  2. Osm:Accounts.edit.contributor_terms.link

They are marked as optional in the configuration, in groups/OpenStreetMap/OpenStreetMap.yaml:

TAGS:
  optional:
    - html.dir
    - accounts.edit.openid.link
    - accounts.edit.public_editing.enabled_link
    - accounts.edit.contributor_terms.link

I added these keys a few weeks ago, and I even think that at some point they were correctly configured as optional. But now they appear as not optional. What's wrong? Did I make a mistake in the configuration? Is there a glitch in configuration functionality?

Thanks :)

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:27, 24 November 2022

I've tried to address it here: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/translatewiki/+/881921

However, it's a bit odd that some messages with '_' and some need '+'.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)19:45, 20 January 2023
 

Enable aae: Arbërisht

Hi! Can you please enable translation for Arbërisht (aae), since I am working on starting its own Wikipedia. Thank you in advance!

Ftillimi (talk)22:34, 24 March 2022

Did you made changes in Portal:Aae to show this Incubator, and register yourself there? Note that if it is enabled you'll know that at the bottom of Special:ActiveLanguages/aae.

Verdy p (talk)22:41, 24 March 2022

I only changed the Incubator variable to yes. Do you suggest that I can also change the disabled variable to no?

Ftillimi (talk)22:56, 24 March 2022

No, do not remove the alert as long as it is not enabled (and notably don't allow the link to the translate UI as it will NOT select the correct target language and can damage the translation of other languages: if you follow a link using an sdaibled language, the Translate UI will open only for translating to your currently selected and enabled user language, not the one you expected!).

I provided you a link above showing the actual status. Only a site admin can activate the Translation UI (and it will instantly be visible on Special:ActiveLanguages/aae). Only at that time, the alert can be dropped from the portal (there's still no way in the wiki to test automatically if a language is enabled or not, so the portal page still has to be tweaked manually.)

Still you can register on the portal in the list of translators, and can also add the language as well to your babel box on your user page (but your level 2 on it may not be sufficient for the site admin, nespacially if you work alone: invite other interested users to join your effort here or on the Wikimedia Incubator by creating an account here, and register themselves in the portal after filling in their user box; this is not necessary for new translators once the language is enabled and actively maintained with a active community somewhere to discuss it).

Also look at the requirements for an Incubator to succeed., and they are checked as well on https://codelookup.toolforge.org/aae (these conditions, summarized in https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/aae, are those from Wikimedia, and are separate of conditions for enableing the language on translatewiki.net; they are not decided by the same admins, but a language enabled in Wikiemdia will generally be enabled here very fast).

See also guidelines and policies documented on Translatewiki.net languages (some infos may be old and may eventually have changed, but they are still globally relevant even they could have been relaxed or enforced with new requirements, the site admins will decide what to do after consulting relevant parties for each target project, notably those for Wikimedia wikis or for the genral translation of the Mediawiki UI).

Verdy p (talk)23:13, 24 March 2022

Very well. I did as you said: I am now on the list of translators, I elevated my babel box to level 3, and I invited a native Arbëresh speaker to create accounts here and on Wikimedia in order to help my translation efforts. I also foresaw the requirements you mentioned, that is why I came here in the first place. Now my question is: Who is able to enable aae translations and where can I submit such a request?

Ftillimi (talk)12:14, 25 March 2022
Edited by author.
Last edit: 23:56, 25 March 2022

This is the right place. Normally a site admin (probably from bureaucrats, including possibly Trizek (WMF) who works for the Wikimedia Foundation in relation with communities) should see your request here and reply. Do what you can in your new Incubator with users you can involve to the project, to show their support. I just gave suggestions in order for you to be convincing. I cannot do anything more

As well you can add your request to Wikimedia's language team (the relevant links are in the entry page of your Incubator), may be they'll create a task in Wikimedia's Phabricator if other Wikimedia users are convincing. And outside Wikimedia, you may find other projects for their wikis or software or site projects that are already using Translatewiki.net, that could have their own request with their own supporting users. You may also find relevant support from local schools or linguistic departments of universities in Italy, or from Italian public libraries for their archives, books or sponsored cultural programs.

So collect as many relevant sources that may be useful (you can do that in your Incubator, or inside other wikimedia wikis, such as Italian or Albanian Wikisource in dedicated subsections/categories/portals and wikiprojects/talks). You may also find open-sourced terminologic lists, social network groups or channels, and local associations or user groups supporting this development. Add as many references as you can and start organizing them, with the help of other contributors that may want to help you. And try to develop a "testbed" with some examplar contents (you're not required to develop a fully functional Wikipedia covering all topics: start simple, focusing first on some important topics that are relevant more specifically for that language and how it differentiates from standard Albanian, or how it evolved in contact with Italian (grammar, vocabulary, orthography, phonetics, some articles about most famous artists or photos and facsimiles of cultural creations...).

Also find the help of graphic designers for relevant maps on Wikimedia Commons (modern or historical aspects: even if you are not a great graphist, make some good drafts: you may create a snapshot from another basemap and add annotations and import some PNG image, ask on Wikimedia Commons helps to create better looking maps, and don't forget to provide some basic translations, notably in Italian or English, so that what you'll create will be found by other people). Finally you can already add data in Wikidata. All that's is a lot of work, and of course you cannot do everything alone, so invite people and welcome them to help you (if you're alone, your work is at risk of being damaged or deleted in Wikimedia sites and you may be exposed to offensive attacks because what you'll have done will not be "perfect" in their opinion). This initial setup will be long and hard, and this is in fact general for all minority languages, until a sufficient consensus is reached at least for some basic stable structure.

In the Incubator, don't focus much on presentation (navboxes, templates...: you may prefill some data but hide them to avoid many "red links" that will complicate the navigation) or complete coverage of any topic (except a few examplar articles/pages: for example, articles in Arbërisht about countries outside its development area is not essential, and you may just have a few stub articles for Europe, or the Mediterranean Sea, and for other languages like Italian or Standard Albanian, or their related regional dialects: these stubs should just be there to help organize and correlate the useful content you want to promote). It is much more important to focus on content organisation (and easy navigation) and on relevant sources. Making that "beautiful" can be done later, however avoid long vertical lists without any useful content (lists can be placed in other pages/subpages: it is more important to show normal paragraphs in the language itself): stay focused, this must be a useful and relevant demonstration.

Verdy p (talk)18:42, 25 March 2022
 
 
 
 

Hi, I can do the configuration, but I have a few questions:

  • Other than the Wikipedia Incubator, are there any books or websites in this language?
  • Are there any books online about this language, for example a grammar book or a dictionary?
Amir E. Aharoni (talk)06:32, 29 March 2022

You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:

The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Users.


You can view and copy the source of this page.

Return to Thread:Support/Enable aae: Arbërisht/reply (8).

Thanks. I've enabled it.

If I understand correctly, you want to create a Wikipedia in it, so I've put a list of recommended projects for translation on your user page. Start from the top one, "Most important". Completing them is one of the conditions for creating a domain.

Even though it's not a requirement, I also recommend reading and translating the basic glossary: Translating:MediaWiki/Basic glossary.

I used "arbërisht" for the language name, which is what appears in the dictionary and on the request for creating the Wikipedia on Meta. Ethnologue suggests "Tarbrisht", but I didn't see it anywhere else, so I was reluctant to use it. If you think that "arbërisht" should be changed, let me know.

Good luck :)

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)14:10, 11 January 2023

Thank you! And thanks for the tips!

Yes, "arbërisht" is fine.

Ftillimi (talk)14:51, 11 January 2023
 
 
 
 

Deprecated message groups

Wikidocumentaries seem to be no longer available, so it should not be listed for translation. The same for iNaturalist, which has moved to Crowdin. This should be made clear to translators so that work is not done in vain.

Eleassar (talk)17:53, 10 January 2023

Wikidocumentaries is not discontinued, but it has unfortunately been down for a long time because of the unavailability of our only developer. Please do not kill it here!

Thank you for you patience!

Susannaanas (talk)19:25, 10 January 2023

Thank you for the information. I hope it will be revived, but at the moment the site is unavailable.

Eleassar (talk)20:36, 10 January 2023
 

As far as I can see, iNaturalist is not listed as a project for translation. Old messages and translations are usually kept here because they may be useful for translation memory, but you are not supposed to see them in the translation interface at all, and you only find them if you really dig for them. If you do see it anywhere as a project for translation, please let us know.

I'm not sure about the status of Wikidocumentaries. I can try pinging its maintainer.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)19:26, 10 January 2023

That would be great. iNaturalist mostly occurs in sets of translations with the same content.

Eleassar (talk)20:38, 10 January 2023

If by "sets of translations with the same content" you mean translation memory suggestions, which appear in the sidebar, then yes, they are kept, and this is more or less the intention. (Nike can correct me if I'm wrong.)

If you think that it's a problem, it can be discussed. I think that it's mostly useful. Occasionally, I even edit iNaturalist translations into Hebrew if they look wrong to me even though they probably won't be used by iNaturalist, because I want the translation memory to be correct and useful.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)11:08, 11 January 2023

I mean Template:Identical (e.g. [1]). Translation memory is only given in selected languages (Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing) and depends on the message group. I agree iNaturalist messages should be kept and may be useful for further reference so I also translate them. On the other hand, I'm glad to note iNaturalist is not included in Special:LanguageStats anymore as I have already translated it once (on Crowdin). As to Wikidocumentaries, I would be glad to translate the messages but as far as the status remains unclear, I'm leaving this for later when more active projects get translated.

Eleassar (talk)12:39, 11 January 2023
 
 
 
 

Mr Vandalism I suppose

Pierpao (talk)17:07, 9 January 2023

Apparently he did not understand the documentation linked by a template in "/qqq" pages, and tried to translate the message-ids (in English) to Oromo [om], instead of translating the messages themselves; this is reversed. This looks like an error, not intended vandlism. But I wonder how to make this less confusing (we need to cite the message-ids in the related templates). May be we could add a top banner when we follow the link "Modify this list" shown by the "Related" template; that banner would explain that this is not intended to make any translation, just to link messages in the documentation pages and showing their current translation. To actually translate messages, users need to follow the links displayed on the rendered list, not modify the list itself.

Note that this bad edit is quite old (on 7 March 2021) when that user was still new on the project (he joined and created his user page on 12 February 2021), and may be there was still not a good enough documentation and navigation or UI on the site was more confusive. It's strange that it was not detected before (several other incorrect edits of "/qqq" page at that time were already reverted quite fast in March 2021). After these few incorrect edits, this did not occur again later.

Verdy p (talk)18:51, 9 January 2023
 

Communicating that plural is now supported

Recently Plural support was added to the EDTF project (https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate/mwgithub-edtf and https://github.com/ProfessionalWiki/EDTF).

Plural support allows us to transform a date like 2023-01-01 to "January 1st 2023" instead of "January 1 2023"

How do we communicate this correctly to the translators that this is possible?

Martsniez (talk)08:30, 9 January 2023

This doesn't seem to support language specific plural rules? My concern is that translators will expect it to work like MediaWiki plural rules, given the syntax looks same, but currently it works differently.

See also https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Plural

Nike (talk)09:53, 9 January 2023
 

Why are English resources using capitalization everywhere? This suggests incorrect capitalization when formatted dates are inserted in sentences, whereas capitalization will be contextual (and can be forced noly when we know this is the start of sentence, e.g. by using {{Ucfirst:}} in Mediawiki). This also applies to weekday names, month names and season names (also not capitalized in most languages, even if English capitalizes weekday names and month names).

Note that I used PLURAL in French for formating "1er janvier 2000" instead of "1 janvier 2000" (the ordinal suffix "er" only applies to the 1st day of the month, there's no suffix for all other days of the month; the PLURAL rule is usable here, even if 0 is also singular but not used for days of the month; all other niteger values are plural in French, so there's no ordinal suffix).

Also another note: it is not clear that for intervals (using "from" and/or "to") the date/time in parameter includes a date (with optional time), or just a time or an imprecise date. This affects how we translate the preposition:

  • "du 1er janvier 2000 au 31 décembre 2000" (note the change from "de" to "du", and "à" to "au")
  • "du 1er janvier au 31 décembre"
  • "de janvier à décembre" (interval of months ; but note also the additional case "d'avril à octobre", where we need a contraction of "de" with an apostrophe and no space)
  • "de janvier 2000 à décembre 2001" (same remark)
  • "de 2000 à 2001" (interval of years)
  • "de 12h30 à 20h30" (interval of times)
  • "du 1er janvier 2000 à 08h30 jusqu’au 31 décembre 2000 à 18h" (note the change from "de" to "du", and "à" to "jusqu’au" because "à" is used for the time on both ends)

This also affects non-intervals for the choice of prepositions meaning "at/on/in" (if there's one) as this preposition changes depending on the date/time precision:

  • "le 1er janvier"
  • "en janvier"
  • "en janvier 2000"
  • "en 2000"
  • "à 12h30"

All these cases are already handled using CLDR data for date formatting (and it supports many more calendars, and all kinds of intervals and precisions).

Verdy p (talk)10:06, 9 January 2023
 

When the change is applied on each Wikipedia?

I made changes for the two article, MediaWiki:Growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-example-rules1/ko and MediaWiki:Growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-example-value/ko on Dec. 27, 2022. However, Korean Wikipedia still display the old version. When the change is applied on our Wikipeida?

Sadopaul (talk)18:03, 5 January 2023

Wikimedia Wikis are generally updated weekly, but there are delays during some holidays, as not enough administrators to validate the imports and look at commits, test them and answer rapidly to issues. Your update on 27 December is not so old, there are just a few additional days to wait for (and even when they come back there may be some more urgent things to work on before applying updates in many wikis).

May be your update is already visible in some major wikis in Tier 1 (such as Commons). And not all updats are necessarily applied at the same time for all modules (notably if there are some blocking dependencies before merging changes using these updated texts with possible conflicts from other pending branches that admins have in priority). You may look at Task lists on Phabricator's board for such updates... Nothing is forgotten, and certainly not for the Visual Editor and the Growsth Experiment which are very active and have plenty on ongoing changes.

Verdy p (talk)05:05, 6 January 2023

Translation exports and imports were mostly running normally during the holidays. Deployments to Wikimedia wikis were paused for the holidays.

Basically there are two things to watch to know when change is going out:

Nike (talk)09:59, 9 January 2023
 

As far as I can see, it's deployed now. Deployment to Wikipedia in most languages usually happens on Thursday late in the evening European time, and you wrote your messages shortly before that.

Recently it was also a holiday season in many countries, so deployments in general were reduced.

You can see the full deployment schedule for Wikimedia projects here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:22, 6 January 2023

Thanks for help! I wish you have a great 2023.

Sadopaul (talk)06:45, 9 January 2023

Happy new year, and thanks for your translations! <3

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)06:49, 9 January 2023
 
 
 

Missing from Pywikibot

Picture

Milićević (talk)12:19, 4 January 2023

It took me a couple of minutes to understand the report, but I think I understood it :)

Does this happen in a current version of Pywikibot? If not, can you please update and try again?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)10:33, 5 January 2023

Current version (downloaded 18 dec 22). I tried adding message manually in i18n/en.json but its just pops up new error message

Milićević (talk)11:10, 5 January 2023

18 dec 22 is not so new. Please try updating from Gerrit and running again.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)11:20, 5 January 2023

Version, error; I tried adding message manually here but it did not help (’cosmetic_changes-append’)

Milićević (talk)10:09, 6 January 2023

I'm really not a big expert on pywikibot, but from what I know, its users usually update from Gerrit and rely more on the Gerrit version number based on the last commit. If you got pywikibot from Gerrit, you can check it by running git log -1.

As far as I can see, the usage of the message "cosmetic_changes-append" has changed recently, and I think that if you update to the latest version from Gerrit, the problem will be fixed.

If you try this and it's still not fixed, then I'll try to involve pywikibot developers.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)11:30, 6 January 2023
 
 
 
 

The "cosmetic_changes-append" message was replaced with "pywikibot-cosmetic-changes" message in Pywikibot 7 and was removed in Pywikibot 8, see https://doc.wikimedia.org/pywikibot/stable/changelog.html#will-be-removed-in-pywikibot-8. This problem may happen if you have updated the i18n files but your Pywikibot release is older than 7.0.0. I propose to update the Pywikibot to the current stable version (7.7.2).

Xqt (talk)13:40, 7 January 2023

My previous answer is wrong. The translation of Pywikibot 7+ does not work as expected. The i18n.twtranslate() function raises that exception even a fallback is given; this is not intentional and is a real bug. I'll fix it soon. See phab:T326470.

Xqt (talk)13:58, 7 January 2023

Thanks!

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)14:28, 7 January 2023
 
 
 
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