Support/Archive/2008/2

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The pages in this archive are:

Localisation guideline for unaltered texts

Localisation guidelines does not specify whether or not to translate texts that are not changed from the fallback language. Should we better do so, or shall we better leave them alone? Or does the best choice depend on something, e.g. not translate more technical stuff like "project:Babel" or accesskey-x-y-z, and do translate real language texts since we are not sure whether or not the fallback translation may be changed to something we cannot use any more? --Purodha Blissenbach 11:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Usually a fallback is a way to make things slightly less inconvenient if there is no full localisation for a certain language. All fallbacks lead to English if there is no alternative in the fall back chain. My opinion is that all non-optional messages should have a localisation in any language. There are a few exceptions, f.e. if a whole language code falls back (zh->zh-hans, als->gsw), in which case there should be no localisations at all, and in the case of de-formal, where only affected messages are to be localised. Siebrand 13:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Fully agreed with the exceptions.
A note on using fallbacks filling gaps in translations. There are occasions where two or more localisations could be mutual fallbacks of each other,
  • such as dialects of a macrolanguage (e.g. the two main serbian ones; or our varieties nds, and nds-NL; or the yet to be created Ripuarian varieties) or
  • differently scripted versions (e.g. sr-Latn and sr-Cyrl, and several more).
Currently, we do not have a way to reflect this "mutuality" in the software. We only have straight fallback chains - put more precisely, we descend trees, from some branch node strictly towards the root (English) - and we cut the process after 5 steps, so as to avoid loops.
I'd like thoughts and feedback about the idea to make this more flexible, while at the same time retaining or even enhancing a strict limitation of processing time. --Purodha Blissenbach 09:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it's agood idea to have a fallback between two differently scripted versions even if it's the same language. The fallback may not be readable, and it's notreally posssible to say which version is the default one (is it Cyrillic or Latin for Serbian?)
On the opposite, the Serbo-Croatian (Latin) mixed language (srh) can be a valid fallback for Serbia-Latin, Croatian-Latin, and Bosnian-Latin. The same is true between generic Norwegian (no) which can be a valid fallback for Bokmål/Riksmal (nb) and Nynorsk (nn) because they share the dame script, and a very good mutual understanding (and a large comon vocabulary).
As well, generic Chinese (zh) is probably the same as simplified Chinese (zh-hans) used in PRC and Singapore (these regianal variants, if needed shoud used zh-hans as their fallback), but is a valid fallback for other Chinese variants (including Traditional Chinese zh-Hant, that has at least three minor variants for Hong Kong, PRC Cantonese, and Taiwanese; it's not simple to determine if the Hong Kong dialect or Taiwan dialect is the default, both will use zh-hant, but if needed zh-HK and zh-TW may use zh-hant as a valid fallback and specify translations only where this makes a difference from a common default; when it's not possible to determine which of the two minor variants is the default one, both minor variants should specify the value, even if one is equal to the one specifed in the default fallback zh-hant).
Verdy p 14:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


WikiAdmin e-mail

maybe it's just me ;), however, it seems mailing system has a small error with url. Example (part of e-mail):

The Betawiki page MediaWiki:Ipb already blocked/hr has been changed on
18:15, 6 June 2008 by FuzzyBot, see
http://localhost/wiki/MediaWiki:Ipb_already_blocked/hr for the current
version.

this is e-mail about changes for article on watchlist, if i'm not mistaken, there should be translatewiki.net instead localhost. --Dalibor Bosits 21:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's crap. Go kick Niklas :) Siebrand 19:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

New i18n related bugs in Mediazilla

  • bug 14434 — MediaWiki:categoriespagetext should offer links to Special:UnusedCategories, and possibly Special:WantedCategories
  • bug 14438 — int:sitesupport, int:sitesupport-url not updated from svn version of MessagesKsh.php
  • bug 14454 — "Member of group(s)" in Special:Preferences
  • bug 14455 — Invitation e-mail subject to be translated.

Please voice your opinions, and vote for the bugs. --Purodha Blissenbach 23:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Bw-mainpage-intro-text

I suggest to add a link to the extension page such as

provided by an [[mw:Extension:Translate|extension]]

to the message. I tried it in the ksh translation, it seems to work and looks good. --Purodha 20:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea what you want to change or accomplish. Please elaborate. Siebrand 19:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Babel-desc

Suggestion: the text "babel userbox column" could be a link to [[int:babel-url]] --Purodha Blissenbach 18:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that this makes much sense, MediaWiki:babel-url has nothing to do with "babel userbox column". MinuteElectron 19:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Specialpages-note

----
* Generally available special pages.
* <span class="mw-specialpagerestricted">Restricted special pages.</span>

by: Sp5uhe

Not done. Too minor a change to fuzzy everything. Siebrand 19:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletedcontributions ("Deleted user contributions")

Deleted contributions

by: Meno25

I disagree. The current description is accurate and does not require change. Siebrand 00:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Centralauth-prefs-count-attached ("Your account is active on $1 wikis.")

Does "active" here refer to whether the user has made contributions at those sites, or whether the account is enabled there? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The latter. "A present user, not necessarily with contributions" Siebrand 00:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Renamed messages

The message MediaWiki:Missingarticle/ksh was missingarticle deleted from MessagesKsh.php some days ago. Today, I accidentally find an untranslated message MediaWiki:Missing-article/ksh which, it seems, is exactly the previously deleted one. That means, it actually has been renamed, but the process of renaming did not reach the translation to ksh. That is imho not a good idea. I would not know of one, but imho there should be a way to semi-automatize a task like this. (-: I prefer not be bothered with re-entering messages after incomplete renames :-) --Purodha Blissenbach 19:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like you missed a $2 in your translation. Siebrand 20:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I did. My apologies, the messages were look-alikes, but different. :-( --Purodha Blissenbach 02:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Stabilization-tab ("vet")

I was wondering what "vet" in MediaWiki:Stabilization-tab means. I am trying to translate it into Esperanto. Some other languages have:

  • Spanish: vetar (which seems like the English word "veto")
  • French: (aq) (which I have no idea what that's an abbreviation for)
  • Portuguese: cgq (again, an abbreviation... no idea)
  • Russian: (кк) (again, an abbreviation.)
  • Dutch: (er)

What in the heck does this mean? :-) -- Yekrats 13:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

For localisation it is a stupid word[1]: to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.: An expert vetted the manuscript before publication. Siebrand 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Suppress ("Suppress")

What this message means? Is it action or person? --EugeneZelenko 14:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Is a action! M.M.S. 15:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"Oversight" is the process or action that enables you to completely suppress versions or log entries from sight. Not even sysops can then see the versions that have been taken out of sight. Siebrand 17:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for help! However will be good idea to reflect this in message documentation. --EugeneZelenko 14:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

A bit fuzzy on FUZZY!!

I just scanned a few translations marked "fuzzy." But the translations look fine to me. Where can I find the former English text to compare and see what changed? I'd like to double-check myself and make sure I'm not missing something (hopefully) subtle. I tried looking at the main entry (without the / and the language code), but all I see is a deletion log with the text available only to sysops. Thanks, Snakesteuben 12:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Without letting us know which messages you checked, there is hardly anything we can do for you. Please try to be as detailed as possible when asking for help. Cheers! Siebrand 08:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I think, the question was very clear: Where can I find the former English text to compare and see what changed?
But I guess, Siebrand is indicating, that the answer is: Nowhere. (At least not on Betawiki.)
You could try to look for the changes in the diff links on [2], but it can be hard to find the exact corresponding diff for an change, if the summary line does not mention the message name. --::Slomox:: >< 13:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Babel extension bugs

Hi Minuteelectron.

  1. Babel.css does not load from server. My suggestion: add MediaWiki:Babel.css for customisation output by CSS
  2. Following messages content and option should changed to default values (else sysops spend many time for understanding why is Category:En-3 tough expected at least Category:User en-3):
'babel-category-prefix' => 'User_', # only translate this message to other languages if you have to change it
'babel-template-prefix' => 'User_', # only translate this message to other languages if you have to change it

--AlefZet 23:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

  1. See the message in the header of Babel.css - it is intended for copying to MediaWiki:Common.css rather than being loaded directly, this ensure customizability and reduces uneeded extension code.
Not reason for increasing regular MediaWiki:Common.css or MediaWiki:Monobook.css that already very HUGE on live wikies. It is appears silly.--AlefZet 11:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
  1. I don't think this is very sensible, it means that it has to be translated and if the wiki changes content language things will break. The message itself is documented on the extension page thoroughly so confusion should not be an issue.
MinuteElectron 20:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
It breaks normal rendering of the categories like Category:User en-3 today and now. About 50-100 languages used to Babel with 6 levels in sum it is 300-600 categories. You propose change 600 categories? :D Any extension should work normally without any settings maden by SysOps or settings per wiki maden by shell admins. Else that extension should withdrawn. I not imagine Tim Starling settig User_ translation for each wiki :D)) --AlefZet 11:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
There are no settings which need to be altered by shell admins to get the features you request, please note that the likelyhood of Babel being enabled on Wikimedia wikis is negligible anyway. Adding a MediaWiki:Babel.css page would not improve the situation in any way either, it would be more efficient to automatically add the default code, and then this be altered by MediaWiki:Common.css - either way this feature is simply a workaround and adding the code to MediaWiki:Common.css is very easy. Also Sysops are free to change the category prefix, saying that 600 categories would need changing is incorrect. MinuteElectron 21:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Typo in Msg MultipleCats

There is a typo in this message. Seperate --> Separate --Meno25 21:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 10:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Typo in Cologneblue.css ("/* All CSS here will be loaded for users of the Cologne Blue skin */") and Cologneblue.js ("/* All JavaScript here will be loaded for users of the Cologne Blue skin */")

These messages say "Bologne blue skin", not "Cologne blue skin". /Lejonel 10:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 10:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Some problem with language mhr

I can't find mhr in language combobox in my preferences/user profile. When I registered this language was there. And I had set it up as the interface language. Recently I have changed it to ru. And now I can't change it back because it had disapeared. Please, help me.Сай 16:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know what should I do to change my language to mhr? There is no mhr in language list, but I can make translations on it. It is not comfortable to translate interface without being able to see the result of translation.Сай 07:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

There something must be wrong, because i also do not see mhr in languages list, in user preferences. -yyy 09:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Local modification was lost in the update. Should work again. – Nike 09:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
At the moment it is not working yet.Сай 10:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

require sysop access

Hi. May I have sysop access in betawiki? I want to take a more active part here and check my translation in administrative environment. cheers!.Mostafa 00:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 07:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

checkuser-log

Could somebody please add descriptions for MediaWiki:checkuser-log-userips, MediaWiki:checkuser-log-ipedits, MediaWiki:checkuser-log-ipusers, MediaWiki:checkuser-log-ipedits-xff, MediaWiki:checkuser-log-ipusers-xff? I really would like to know what exactly $1 and $2 are saying in the final message. I really don't understand the purpose and I have no access to CheckUser forms. --::Slomox:: >< 13:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to Lejonel for the description. --::Slomox:: >< 17:38, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Translatable groupnames

Can it be possible to translate the names for messagegroups, here is a example for Swedish:

MediaWiki messages  =>  MediaWiki-meddelanden
All extension       =>  Alla tillägg

M.M.S. 10:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand who would benefit from it. Most of them are proper names anyway. – Nike 10:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Untranslated messages

I've translated a lot of messages for nds-nl. When I go to the translation tool and select the first option (MediaWiki 1.12) 1414 messages appear as untranslated, when I click on the link, they are translated, how do I know what to translate? Servien 17:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I think I have fixed the bug now. Thanks for repoting. – Nike 19:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Where is uselang=debug gone?

Some time ago, there was a question asked here about how to find the names of messages given a page where they appear. The answer was uselang=debug in the URL, which I could see working. Now it is gone again. What to do? --Purodha Blissenbach 17:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Works only in sandwiki. – Nike 19:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Using of grammatical cases in MediaWiki:Babel extension for Old Church Slavonic

How can I use Instrumental case in language name? As default it shows "Словѣньскъ" (the language name in Nominative case) but it should be "словѣ́ньскꙑ" (Instrumental case). ОйЛ 14:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid this is not possible due to the way language names are translated. However, if you translate all the Babel messages (specifically the babel-x-n ones) you will be able to use the instrumental case in them. MinuteElectron 19:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Message lost?

See this diff, there is one deletion after line 1918, of the line saying:

 'widthheight'  => '$1×$2',

I am 100% sure that only minutes ago, I altered widthheight to "$1×$2", I did not delete it. Now, where is it gone? It does not seem to have been moved elsewhere, at least I couldn't find it; and it seems hard to believe that it was deleted from the messages base in general. --Purodha Blissenbach 10:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Messages equal to that in MessagesEn.php and not present as page in Betawiki are removed from source files. In those cases fallback will take care of showing the proper message. If a message is optional, and present as page, it is ignore on export. I think the latter is the case here. Siebrand 12:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
This is imho inconsistent with the initial two paragraphs of #Localisation guideline for unaltered texts above. If a message is not changed from English, and another language being an in-between fallback, later changes it, the translation is possibly broken. This is likely not the case with this special one, since its effectively of language codes mul or maybe zxx, since it is only figures and a symbol. But in general, we cannot rely on handing messages along a fallback chain, can we? Or else, am I missing something? --Purodha Blissenbach 19:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Error in Template New portal

Likely, there is an error in the template:New portal. I tried to find it, in vain. The page Portal:Ksh is in category:Languages with a Wiktionary project which is wrong. --Purodha Blissenbach 16:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it; it was missing an }. Jon Harald Søby 19:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! --Purodha Blissenbach 22:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

== Delete-toobig ("This page has a large edit history, over $1 revisions. Deletion of such pages has been restricted to prevent accidental disruption of translatewiki.net."), Delete-warning-toobig ("This page has a large edit history, over $1 revisions. Deleting it may disrupt database operations of translatewiki.net; proceed with caution.") should use PLURAL == For $1 revision/revisions. --EugeneZelenko 14:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Added to list. Siebrand 08:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

sharedupload messages problems

Currently sentences from Shareduploadwiki-desc ("The description on its $1 there is shown below."), Shareduploadduplicate ("This file is a duplicate of $1 from shared repository."), Shareduploadconflict ("This file has the same name as $1 from the shared repository.") are split on 2 parts. They include Shareduploadduplicate-linktext ("another file"), Shareduploadwiki-linktext ("file description page"), Shareduploadconflict-linktext ("another file"). It's very hard to guess how to translate such broken sentences with correct grammar case.

I think mentioned messages should monolithic sentences and accept only links as parameter. In this case will be more easy to make correct translation and also simplify translators life :-) EugeneZelenko 14:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Added to list. Siebrand 08:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Lqt youhavenewmessages ("You have new messages.")

Plz change this to a full sentence because this in combination with $1 in german the text gets strange

by: DaSch

Added to the list. Siebrand 08:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Problem in disambiguations-text message

Hi. Can somebody write something about this message (disambiguations-text) specially about changing this link ([[MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage]]). As I checked this link appears as problematic link.Mostafa 14:53, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I cannot tell. why the "problematic link" warning appears. Otherwise, I gave it a try, MediaWiki:disambiguations-text/qqq --Purodha Blissenbach 20:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I will work on to improve the warnings, just please give me some time. – Nike 20:23, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Niuean (niu)

Hi, I cannot find Niuean (niu) on the My Preferences language list. Could someone add it in please? Thanks. --Jose77 08:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The same problem with Eastern Mari(mhr). Сай 08:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Request it at Translating:Tasks#Open Issues. SPQRobin 11:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Undelete ("View deleted pages")

When undeleting a page, the fieldset around Restore/Reset buttons has a legend that says "View deleted pages" (MediaWiki:Undelete). These buttons have nothing to do with viewing, so the legend should be changed to something like "Restore revisions". - AlexSm 04:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Thanks. Siebrand 12:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Post-expand-template-inclusion-category ("Pages where template include size is exceeded")

'Pages where template include size is exceeded'. What does this mean and where does it occur? Is it the template that's too big or a parameter or the page or what? It's a mystery! Lloffiwr 18:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

when templates are expanded, there is a size limit for the number of bytes (or characters?) yielded. Usually that occurs from excessively nested templates, recursive templates, or ones having x-zillion of #if #case or similar contructs in them. When the wikicode parser detects this, it outputs a red warning message to the page. Likely the pages are meant, where the current/last cached version has this error. --Purodha Blissenbach 23:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I added the above explanation to the corresponding /qqq. Thanks Purodha. Siebrand 12:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

edit previous / next

Many many thanks and big hugs for the "edit next / edit previous / return to list" links! Wow, what a brilliant addition! --Purodha Blissenbach 23:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

it took a lot of whining :) Big cheers to Niklas. Siebrand 07:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

autodetecting unbalanced html tags?

Is there a chance to include detection of errors like the one corrected here in automated html-sanity checks? --Purodha Blissenbach 23:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll try. – Nike 07:33, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Problem in message

Hi. I don't understand what the problem is in message MediaWiki:Disambiguations-text/vo. Could you guys please tell me? Thanks, Malafaya 11:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Support#Problem_in_disambiguations-text_messageNike 11:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for not having seen it :(. I suppose there is no problem. I'll wait on the improved warning. Thanks, Malafaya 12:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Localized edit buttons for be-tarask

Thanks to Nike for implementing bugzilla:11732! Could you please include localized image for be-tarask?

However images should be renamed to from be to be-tarask for consistency.

EugeneZelenko 14:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Are these only for be-tarask, or can other cyrillic scripts use these? – Nike 16:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Only for be-tarask. Other languages will be different. --EugeneZelenko 16:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Added.--Alnokta 21:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for help! --EugeneZelenko 15:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Parameter deficiency regarding date/time.

There is no way to make MediaWiki:Rcnote/ksh a well formed sentence without separating date and time into two parameters, which are currently aggregated into $3 alone. I tried, but I could not get beyond what is likely seen as "bad computerized style". The same is true for likely almost all similar messages, that have date and time glued together in one parameter. I remember that I occasionally filed bugs in Mediazilla, when detecting one, which were usually honored. Should I continue doing that individually? Alternatively, I could look up how theses splits were made in the past, and just make more of them in the source code, if I can. Yet I am uncertain, whether or not, and if so, which, coordination would be needed for such changes. I do not want to break anything. --Purodha Blissenbach 10:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed for rcnote. – Nike 18:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Formerror ("Error: Could not submit form.")

I propose adding <span class=error> around MediaWiki:Formerror/en. This message says "Error: could not submit form" and it's displayed under page H1 heading (inside "contentSub" in Monobook skin), and by default it has small font and gray color, which makes it hard to notice. The message is displayed e.g. when you try to move the page into invalid title like <>. - AlexSm 21:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not an issue with this message, it is (possibly) an issue with the modern skin. I reproduced this in the MonoBook skin and things are much more clear there. The message you are referring to is used as a page subtitle ($wgOut->setSubtitle( wfMsg( 'formerror' ) );) in SpecialMovepage.php. I do not think it is a good idea to modify the behaviour of that method. The css for Modern skin for class error could be changed. Any opinions? Siebrand 12:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
The subtitle is probably not the best place for an error message. – Nike 18:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes made in system texts

If you've made some changes in the text on your local wiki. Does this effect the Betawiki or vice versa? For example I've changed "controleren" > "contreleren"/"naokieken" do I have to change it on both wiki's? Servien 11:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes done in Betawiki are pushed to other installations trough the version control system. Changes to other wikies do not affect MediaWiki localisation, except for only those wikies itself. – Nike 12:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, please remember that if you have already changed something on a local wiki and then you change it on Betawiki, the local wiki will continue to show the new local wiki message - if you want the new Betawiki message to show on the local wiki then you must delete the new message on the local wiki. It is less work altogether to translate on Betawiki only. But, if you want a message for a particular local wiki to be different to the default message on Betawiki, then you definitely need to translate/change the message on both wikis. In that case, you should do a straight translation of the default message on Betawiki but can have a different message on the local wiki. A good example of this is adding special character boxes to the bottom of edit boxes on your local wiki. Lloffiwr 22:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Translate-rc-translation-filter-site

We'd need an explanation on MediaWiki:Translate-rc-translation-filter-site/qqq so as to understand, how to translate it. Thanks. --Purodha Blissenbach 14:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

That is for changes to MediaWiki-messages without any language code. For example MediaWiki:Sidebar or MediaWiki:Common.css, but not MediaWiki:Common.css/fr or other messages for specific languages. These messages will not be submitted to svn, but will only affect the interface on Betawiki. /Lejonel 21:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Your last statement is incorrect, Lejonel. Bw-* messages will not be committed. Translate-* definitely will be committed. Cheers! Siebrand 08:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Maybe I should not have said anything about committing, since I don't really know how that is done. But is there not a difference between for example MediaWiki:Translate-desc/sv and MediaWiki:Translate-desc? If I change the Swedish translation, it will be changed next time commits of messages are done. But I assumed that if I changed the English "site message", it would not be committed at the same time as other translations. At least not without you looking at it more carefully and agreeing it is an improvement. And in the core "site messages" there is MediaWiki:Sidebar, MediaWiki:Recentchangestext, and other Betawiki customisations which should not be committed. /Lejonel 22:44, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
That is correct. Messages changed in MediaWiki: without a language suffix will be used in this wiki, and will not be committed. Changes to source messages (/en if you like), should be discussed here and will be changed manually by a developer after a discussion with a 'change' outcome. Cheers! Siebrand 12:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Special:Allmessage

Where is Special:Allmessage gone from Betawiki? It was most helpful when searching for specific message texts. --Purodha Blissenbach 22:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It has been changed into Special:Translate. However, you can also just use Special:Search. Jon Harald Søby 08:14, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Neither helps. Can we have the standard Special:Allmessages back, please? There is no real reason to delete it from translatewiki.net, is there? --Purodha Blissenbach 17:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
You should use Special:Translate with task=view, task=reviewall or task=review depending on your exact needs. We just do not use Special:Allmessages. Cheers! Siebrand 08:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
It is my wish to find a message in the MediaWiki name space, given (part(s) of) the current translated text in it. Currently, there is no way to do that on translatewiki.net. That is unfortunate. At times, I see something wrong somewhere, and since I cannot easily switch to ?uselang=debug mode, and I cannot search for the wrong piece of text in the messages base, I have a hard time finding out, where to alter it, usualy. --Purodha Blissenbach 22:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Another note, the trouble is Special:Translate refuses to list English messages (at least, last time I checked) which means it misses functionality of Special:Allmessages. MinuteElectron 11:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Re-added by popular demand Siebrand 15:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sentence formation in Gujarati

Hi, While translating for localisation, I came across few difficulties in messages, for example:

  1. gramatically the sentences in Gujarati are formed in a reverse order of English, to give a typical example of this, "From month (and earlier): _______" in Gujarati will be written as "_____ month from (and earlier) (---- મહિનાથી (અને પહેલાનાં))" and similarly "From year (and earlier): _______ " in Gujarati will be written as "_____ year from (and earlier) (---- વર્ષથી (અને પહેલાનાં))", I hope that these kind of sentenses should be taken care of while replacing the lenguage as there is a text box at the end of phrase in English, which should be in the begining in Gujarati.
    Probably not. This is not localisation but internationalisation. Maybe a coder can comment? Siebrand 15:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
    • I am inclined to say: "Of course not!" If I am not completely mistaken, then there is not need to take care of word order, since variables $1 $2 etc. for month, year numbers, etc. can be placed anywhere, and words inside the rest of the sentences can be different for each language. It is just as you type it. So where is the problem? --Purodha Blissenbach 23:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
      • Purodha - you have missed the point I think. The question is whether an input box and the text next to the input box can be switched to have the input box first. Lloffiwr 21:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
        • Oh, now I gotcha. No. We currently cannot do this, it would indeed need (re)programming. It's not a big deal in and by itself, but quite a task, since there are likely 100's op places, where input boxed would have to be moved inline with translatable texts.
          I've come across the question already with my own translataions, an quickly forgit it again. In "my" langauages, we can always choose words allowing a word order that fits with current screen layouts. This often gives a bit odd or uncommon or "harsh" expressions, but users are used to that; somewhat unfortunately, I must admit.
          Imho, it would be great if we had more flexibility to arrange stuff for better taste of language. Same with splitting date and time fields into their components. Same with Grammar around {{SITENAME}}.
          Yet, this sometimes poses a layout problem. We need to have less fixed screen layouts here and there. Imho not a problem, but more rigid developers, customarily american-ly or anglosaxon-ly minded, may see that differently ;-) Greetings. --Purodha Blissenbach 22:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
    You could refrase and construct question. And the textbox will be the answer. I have made so in mhr in some cases. Example. Original variant: "From year (and earlier):____", and variant with question: "From which year to start? ____". Сай 12:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
  2. there are few messages which can not be translated in Guajrati, i mean there is no literally meaning of them, and I won't feel to just transliterate them, so would prefer to leave them as they are, e.g. RSS Feed, Atom Feed, etc.
    Sounds OK. Just put the English text in as translation. That way it will not show up as untranslated. Siebrand 15:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
  3. Do you want me to translate the !!FUZZY!! as well? as I have translated the rest of message but this, and it still appears in untranslated messages.
    !!FUZZY!! is used to indicate that the message needs to be updated. So compare it carefully to the English source message. Once that has been done, just remove it. Siebrand 15:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Please advise me regarding these few things, I am in anyways carrying on with translating adn hoping to complete 100% translation for most used messages on mediawiki. Thanks in advance.--Dhaval (ધવલ) 15:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done although I could not answer one question. Siebrand 15:45, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Siebrand for your quick most answers and yes, moving it to this right place as well. Now regarding No.1, how to ask this to a coder?--Dhaval (ધવલ) 16:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
We have some problems with different word order in Welsh too, although probably not as difficult to solve as yours. Is it possible for you to construct a different sentence along the lines of "Items before and up to the year of:____" or "Entries up to and for the year number:____" or "Entries up to and for the year shown in the box on the right:______" or "The month from (and earlier) is:____"? For "rows per strip:______" we have to write "number of rows per strip:_____" in Welsh, otherwise the grammar is all wrong. Lloffiwr 22:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
In the Ripuarian languages, to a small extent, we do that, too, e.g. "Page title: ____" is much better than "Page: ____" but both are, what we consider "Telegram style" i.e. replacing normal sentences by the bare minimum word list conveying rudimentary meaning. That always bodes like military, inhumane power, and police. We deeply dislike either. "pixels: ___ " is bad, "number of pixels: ___ " is better, yet (inhumane) computerese, but "in the image there are ___ pixels." would be language. Thank you for listening. --Purodha Blissenbach 22:40, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Just want to add that I also support Dhaval's first suggestion - having flexibility over where an input box goes would be useful. My suggestions above for rephrasing were meant as a kind of damage limitation, or medicine whilst we wait for the operation! Thank you to Сай too for your suggestion to turn the text into a question - that might be useful. Lloffiwr 20:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

requiring Bureaucrat

Would you mind adding me in Bureaucrat group? ThanksMostafa 20:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

What do you require this for? MinuteElectron 20:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Translating Spanish

When translating into Spanish (es) it could be useful to also view the translations to Català (ca), Galego (gl) and Português (pt). --Boivie 08:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Not certain if that is something to be decided by 'us' (non native Spanish speakers). There is a lot of politics between some of the speakers of these languages, and even though politics have nothing to do with Betawiki and localisation, I do not want to step on toes. If you want to act pro-actively, best approach a few Spanish translators and make them aware of the possibility. Cheers! Siebrand 12:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Localized edit buttons for Ukrainian

And for Ukrainian language, please:

--Ahonc 12:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 14:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Messages that should use {{PLURAL}}

Imho,

should use {{PLURAL}} on the number of list items in $2. --Purodha Blissenbach 10:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki supports multiple file types by default if uploads are enabled. "$2" in these messages has the form of png, gif, jpg, jpeg, ogg, pdf, svg. Isn't it a bit overkill to implement plural just in case a wiki admin enables uploads, but decreases the allowed number of file types to one? Siebrand 16:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Done Done Plural is now supported on those two. – Nike 18:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Maltese Characters

Can you please add the maltese special characters at the bottom of the edit page.

À à Ċ ċ È è Ġ ġ Ħ ħ Għ għ Ì ì Ò ò Ù ù Ż ż

Thanks --Giangian15 17:47, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Most of them were already available. The two missing ones (Għ għ) were added. Siebrand 19:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Voctrain messages

The messages

should be using {{PLURAL}}, and its name is ending with a trailing space, which is likely to cause problems. --Purodha Blissenbach 01:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

These messages are not from code we are maintaining. Best let GerardM know, or Kim Bruning, as stated in the message group description. Siebrand 08:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
P.s. If ik click the red links, I think I am not getting to the source message. Please fix the links. Without a proper report, no developer will be able to help you. Siebrand 08:41, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Oops, I completely missed the "/"s at the end. :-( --Purodha Blissenbach 09:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I added those so that they would work at all. – Nike 11:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Localization

I've been given translator privileges and I'm trying to translate some interface messages into Lombard, but when I go to BetaWiki UI Messages I only get the following options: "view all messages from [lang]" - "view all messages untraslated from [lang]" and "review all messages translated into [lang]"; but I can't view all messages that are "untranslated into" so that I can see what still needs translating into Lombard. Am I missing something? --Dakrismeno 09:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Untranslated messages are the default. Try this link if your language preference has been to 'lmo'. Cheers! Siebrand 21:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Typo in Tog-translate-nonewsletter

e-mailaddress --> e-mail address Please fix this. Thanks. --Meno25 21:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 21:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Imageinvalidfilename

If uploading of other file types are allowed, the target file in that message is not necessarily an image. I think the message should say "Target file name is invalid". That should be just as informative for images, and more correct for other file types. /Lejonel 23:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Was reverted. – Nike 07:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Typo in Model.ability.foundColony.shortDescription

to found --> to find --Meno25 07:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

It is possible that this is referring to the ability to create a new colony (correct usage of "found") rather than to discover a new colony (usage of "find"), it is impossible to know without being aware of where in the game it is used - perhaps a FreeCol developer could be consulted. MinuteElectron 11:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I think it is safe to assume that "found" is meant, as the message's name contains "foundColony". Jon Harald Søby 15:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Leading hyhpen before the MW extensions/more translatable parts

I would have two feature requests:

  1. Put a leading hyphen (or something else) to MW-related extensions to distingush them from other project in the list, it's very similar, and hard to find quickly the end of the list of extensions (currently it's not a very bad problem, but when hopefully more projects join, it will be)
  2. More translatable parts, especially the new main page of Special:Translation, and the Translating:Intro, Betawiki:Translator etc. texts should auto switch to the language selected by the user like in the main page. //Danikomolyan? 13:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
1) Enable the nice gadget from your preferences. – Nike 13:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
2) Working on it later this summer.
Nike 13:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, the gadget is very cool :) //Danikomolyan? 16:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Top-fans-stats-comment-score-positive-given ("Thumbs up given")

You have to correct this message: «{{PLURAL:$1|Thumb up give|Thumbs up give}}n» should be «{{PLURAL:$1|Thumb up give|Thumbs up given}}». --Toliño Fala aquí comigo 13:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The message is correct as is. You are mistaken. Siebrand 15:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Thumb up doesn't sound natural to me and the segmentation is also very awkward. – Nike 18:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
That does not make it incorrect. The "n" could be added to both parameters of the plural to make it less awkward, I agree. Does not make it wrong, though. Cheers! Siebrand 18:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

New optional messages

Please make the following messages optional: Revreview-ak-review ("s"), Accesskey-ca-current ("v") and Accesskey-ca-stable ("c") --Meno25 04:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 21:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

16 × 16 Pixel / 1 × 1 Pixel

Not a top priority, since we can get along with a "lazy speech" pattern, but to be using the best style posible, we would translate to Kölsch as follows:

  • 16 × 16 Pixelle
  • 1 × 1 Pixel
  • 1 Pixel × 16 Pixelle — (required)
  • 16 × 1 Pixel
    • 16 Pixelle × 1 Pixel — (optional, correct as well)

The optional last form is could be used thoughout, it was correct, but bodes a bit like "using too many unnecessary words". Luckily, the various ways to read " × " as as word(s) do not requiere grammatical differenciation. :-)

I am mentioning this here because if I changed MediaWiki:File-info-size accordingly, it would have to be added to the "using PLURAL" class, does it not? --Purodha Blissenbach 07:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Btw., we could as well always abbreviate: 1px × 16px, etc. and avoid the hassle. --Purodha Blissenbach 08:02, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I think plural may now work in it, as I made it inline wikitext. – Nike 10:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, PLURAL is working, tx! --Purodha Blissenbach 11:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Siteusers ("translatewiki.net users $1")

Why PLURAL can't be used instead of user(s) construction? --EugeneZelenko 14:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that is a possibility. Added to list. Will only be processed after release of 1.13. Siebrand 18:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Fuzzied not shown

Not all of fuzzied messages shown when I selected "View all translated messages from" on the Special:Translate pages. Is it an error? Rex 01:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Please provide more detail. Please provide a sample URL (and if there is not language in the URL, a language code), an observed behaviour and an expected behaviour. Cheers! Siebrand 07:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Four basic questions

Maybe my questions are really basic. Maybe they have been already answered somewhere else. If so, my true apologies as I'm new to BetaWiki (I opened an account in September but just today started doing something):

  1. I have translated Nahuatl namespaces here [3], taking the Quechuan translation as an example. I've noticed namespaces on the Quechuan Wikipidiya are already translated and namespaces serve fine. However, I've checked the Nahuatl WIkipedia and it still have Spanish namespaces (Usuario:, Discusión:, etc.). Do changes need to be done somewhere else or am I just being too desperated? Maybe a few hours?
    Just add your wish to have the namespace names updated to Translating:Tasks#Commit_requests. Greetings. --Purodha Blissenbach 08:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
    Thanks, actually, I was wondering if it was there!--Fluence 18:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
  2. To translate or modify .php messages one needs to be a developer right? Thanks --Fluence 01:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
    Correct. There is no need for you to be one. We need you to be productive as a translator, and let us do the heavy lifting. Siebrand 21:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
  3. What's the "export" button for on "Special:Magic"? --Fluence 01:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
    Developers use it to make copy/paste ready code for in the .php files. Siebrand 21:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
  4. Sorry... fourth: will the translations I make here automatically replace the ones made before on each project or do I have to request someplace/someone to do it? Thanks--Fluence 01:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
    No. Pages in the MediaWiki: namespace in wikis have priority over messages in the generic product file. You either have to change the local page, or delete it. Siebrand 21:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

P.s. Best have one topic per question. Easier archiving, easier threading, better topic names. Cheers! Siebrand 21:40, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Great and thank you so much. Incredible job by the way Siebrand! --Fluence 23:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggested message type "seen by admins only"

So as to support understaffed translators to some more exotic languages, we could add a classification of messages as "seen by admins only". This is something which "most used", "standard", and "optional" does not properly reflect.

  • messages for admins are not seen by most wiki users in most installations.
  • those messages contain a lot of computerese, like "IP-address range" or "database query", etc., so the're pretty hard to translate (or only partially tranlated) to some languages.
  • wiki admins are often more computer literate and thus understanding english to a larger degree than average citizens.

Thus, translating messages for admins would often be less urgent a task for translators. --Purodha Blissenbach 08:48, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally I do not think that granularising things any further than we already do helps anything, aside from the effort taking time that could otherwise be put into translating... Siebrand 22:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Mark how messages are treated technically, i.e. determine their possible contents

As far as I recall, User:Gangleri had been collecting a whole lot of that stuff once, and it should be likely still available somewhere.

For Mediawiki messages, I know that there are ones, distinguished by:

  1. html
    • that message may contain any html markup
    • that message may contain the html markup permitted by the wiki
    • that message must not contain html markup (if they do, it is rendered verbatim)
  2. inline wiki code (e.g. ''' or [...])
    • inline wiki code is accepted
    • inline wiki code is not permitted (and rendered verbatim, if present)
  3. block wiki code (e.g. === ... === or * at a beginning of a line)
    • block wiki code is accepted
    • block wiki code is not permitted (and rendered verbatim, if present)
  4. placement
    • this message will show up for a $-placeholder in another message
    • the message is used as a block element, or to fill one, in the website
    • the message is used as an inline element, or inside one, rendered as a piece of text, outside a link, in the website
    • the message is used as a wiki-link target in the website
    • the message is used as the ancor text of a link in the website
    • the message is used as value of a title= tag, or similar, in an html element in the website
    • the message is used as value of an accesskey= tag in an html element in the website
    • the message is used inside of an e-mail
    • the message is used in print
  5. Special
    • the message has special content as described in (URL), e.g. MediaWiki:Sidebar.

Maybe, ther are more cases.

Can we collect (re-collect and update) this type of info and have them included in the list of hints accompanying each message? It would be more helpful to just have it once, than to try and re-try for each and every case of uncertainty. If so, where and how would the info be collected? Added to the /qqq hint data? I'd rather want to keep most of it separate, since almost all of it is non-textual data. --Purodha Blissenbach 22:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The only way for it be be useful is to put it in /qqq. Feel free to add. You can do it as well as anyone else. Please use templates as little as possible, as the /qqq is also exported into gettext files, and using templates will make it harder to use. Siebrand 22:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
These technical propertery data are highly repetitive and schematic, so imho template use would be hardly avoidable. Of course, we can try to get away with a single template eating a list of parameters from a pretty narrow set, see above.
I am rather uncertain, whether or not such formalized stuff should be intermingled with human readable text like the /qqq data. Using a template for it will make it easily extractable by various technical means, so I would not mind using the /qqq for the time being.
Is the data available somewhere somehow that Gangleri once collected? --Purodha Blissenbach 11:23, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
The way Gangleri facilitated localisation was way too technical. That's not the level we want to have in here again. Siebrand 09:32, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Protect-fallback

What is MediaWiki:Protect-fallback being used for, and what can be replacing "$1" in it? --Purodha Blissenbach 11:44, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

That is for wikis with more protection levels than 'autoconfirmed' and 'sysop'. For example if your wiki has configured an extra protection level 'superprotect', then the protection form will have one more option. That option will be MediaWiki:Protect-fallback 'Require "superprotect" permission' (unless some admin has created "MediaWiki:Protect-level-superprotect"). /Lejonel 13:38, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

More message requiring PLURAL

--Purodha Blissenbach 15:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done for the core messages; for the quiz messages I have no idea how to fix it. Jon Harald Søby 17:31, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I've inpected the Quiz Extension at Wikiversity, mewanwhile. There is no way to fix them. They are prompts. You enter figures of 0, 1, … N in front of them, so they are to be ambiguous, as they are. I am sorry that I entered them here before I properly researched them. --Purodha Blissenbach 19:56, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== Add link to Importtext ("Please export the file from the source wiki using the export utility. Save it to your computer and upload it here.") == I believe it would be better if there was a link to Special:Export in Importtext ("Please export the file from the source wiki using the export utility. Save it to your computer and upload it here.") instead of plain text. --Meno25 12:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done by Siebrand. --Meno25 02:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

== Confirmrecreate ("User $1 (talk) deleted this page after you started editing with reason:

$2

Please confirm that you really want to recreate this page.") == There is a missing "you" in Confirmrecreate ("User $1 (talk) deleted this page after you started editing with reason:

$2

Please confirm that you really want to recreate this page."). Current: "Please confirm that really want to recreate this page" Should be: "Please confirm that you really want to recreate this page" --Meno25 12:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 10:08, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

"next/previous message" links

"previous message" links to page itself.

http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Breadcrumbs-desc/ksh&loadgroup=ext-breadcrumbs displays a link to the "previous message" pointing to the page itself. --Purodha Blissenbach 09:17, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

"next message"

"next message" never links anywhere any more. --Purodha Blissenbach 15:56, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Fixed indeed. --Purodha Blissenbach 19:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Both should be fixed after update. – Nike 17:41, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Why nah babel doesn't show?

I've got English: #babel:en-4
But Nahuatl does not appear #babel:nah-2
I've translated MediaWiki babel, example: MediaWiki:Babel-2/nah
But it won't work. What's the problem then? Is it somewhere else? As far as I know Nahuatl is supported by Beta and it's isn't a template either. Is not that important but I'd appreciate if you could answer me :) --Fluence 17:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I've checked this, and I do not see why e.g. on the page Portal:nah there are missing templates only but not the Babel extension messages. It may be a bug in the Babel extension. Best talk to MinuteElectron about it. He is the author of the Babel extension. I've dropped him a note already. --Purodha Blissenbach 19:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
nah is not a valid ISO 639-3 code and so won't work under the current system, I will see if I can get non ISO codes to work at some point - I've added it to my to do list. MinuteElectron 19:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

That'd explain it; [nah] it's an ISO 639-2. The ISO 639-3 for Classical Nahuatl is [nci]. We've been using [nah] instead of [nci] as the MediaWiki extension was given long ago. Don't worry, whenever you can I'd be grateful. --Fluence 00:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I had seen that, nah is one of the rather rare codes which are in ISO 639-2 and not in ISO 639-3, but since it is present in Names.php, I was assuming it to work despite of that. --Purodha Blissenbach 07:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Possibly, it would be good, to translate nci, and the other variants, as well? I do not know, how distant they are, and how many users will be there to use them, but in the end, it is often more helpful if there is more precision. --Purodha Blissenbach 07:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The only problem ,if moved, is nci is already a variant, comprised within nah; all modern variants are comprised within nah; nah-nlv for example. It wouldn't be accurate to place nlv within nci as nlv is an evolution of nci, not a variant. This is some kind of map:

  • nah - variety of nahuan languages; includes:
  • Sole literary variant with no native speakers:
  • nci (Classical Nahuatl, 1325-1645)
  • Modern spoken and written variants with native speakers:
  • nlv (Orizaba Nahuatl c.17th Century-present, with modern alphabet, 1922-present)
  • nhx (Isthmus c.17th Century-present)
  • Others...

So we've got an oddly used code; nah in which Classical Nahuatl. Furthermore, as nci was (and continues) to be the first and best referenced and documented variant, it's considered to be the lingua franca of all other variants, as if nah really corresponded to it. And that's why variants should be included as subdomains of nah. It's complex. --Fluence 21:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Needs to be adressed by Babel extension dev. Siebrand 19:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
This regression has now been fixed, sorry for the delay. MinuteElectron 20:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much, no problem on the delay ;)--Fluence 23:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Show number of messages in Special:Translate

It would be very useful, if Special:Translate could show the total number of messages and the number of messages yet untranslated for every extension. Would make it easier to see where additional work is needed and where not. --::Slomox:: >< 12:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Is typically a usability issue. Will not get a really high priority. Siebrand 16:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Needs to be put on a task list. Siebrand 19:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Put on a list. Siebrand 10:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


How to translate such stuff??

{{PLURAL:$3|revision|revisions}}

When i get across such stuff what should i do.. translate revision and revisions? or just revisions?

and another question.. is it possible to translate namespace titles here.. like Wikipedia: , Help:, etc etc??

Thx --Giangian15 10:47, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

PLURAL is a function that selects one of the two parts, depending on the value of the parameter. So in this case you should translate both "revision" and "revisions".
I think I've read in several help-texts that namespace titles in messages should not be translated.
Namespace titles themselves can be translated in Special:AdvancedTranslate. --Boivie 12:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually PLURAL could be more complicated. For example Slavic languages have 3 plural forms.
You need to look into language textbooks and find out how correctly spell 1 item, 2 items, ... N items and implement convertPlural(). See French, Russian, and other languages as example.
EugeneZelenko 14:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes man maltese has two plural forms, but what does this got to do with this, i'm confused man :( just tell me what to do when i get across such situations.. at the moment i'm translating everything.. revision and revisions. The question is:

i continue translating it like this?? or i dnt need to translate revision?

Besides one word has only one plural after all.

P.s gonna look at italian what they're doing cause it's the only other language i understand besides maltese and english.

Thanks

--Giangian15 14:59, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

As EugeneZelenko has already explained: if your langauge has plural forms equal to English (singular and plural), just translate it as is. If your plural grammar is more complex, tell us how it works. Then we can add some code to MediaWiki. If the latter is the case, best skip the messages containing plural until the grammar for your language has been implemented. Cheers! Siebrand 21:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok thanks whoever added the italian translation in the edit page. I'm afraid it's complex though... Edit: Just figured that there are some circumstances that required complex grammer form.. spk to you after i finish the rest. bye. Giangian15 21:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

According to the articles Maltese language and Dual at the English Wikipedia, it seems like Maltese have two forms of plural; one form for 2, and one form for more than 2. --Boivie 05:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes but they don't exist coherently together.. there is the plural miksur (broken plural) and the plural sħiħ (whole plural), a word only has one plural.. practically the sħiħ, just add a small suffix to a word and it becomes plural like:

siġġu (chair) ---> siġġijiet (chairs)

and then we have the plural miksur.. words like:

medja (table) ---> imwejjed (tables)

but that's not the problem.. that i was thinking about.. it's more complex.. difficult to explain cause in maltese:

  • one chair --> siġġu wieħed
  • 2-10 chairs --> żewġ - għaxar siġġijiet

but

  • 11 - 19 chair --> ħdax -il siġġu - dsatax -il siġġu

it goes back to singular and (-il) is added in the middle..

then from 20 chairs ...
għoxrin siġġu... etc etc

remains singular till infinity..

infinita ta' siġġijiet (infinity of chairs)

only between 2-9 we use the plural really.. when we're talking about definite numbers.

So what am i gonna do?? Thanks --Giangian15 01:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Edit: it gets more complicated than that.. really.. with the number 2..

1 time --> darba

2 times --> darbtejn not żewġ drabi

another example

1 day --> jum

2 days --> jumejn not żewġ t'ijiem

5 days --> ħames t'ijiem

etċ etċ

--Giangian15 01:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I found the algorithm Gettext uses. It's demoed on Sandbox#Maltese_plurals. I don't know any Maltese so I couldn't put real word there. – Nike 07:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
yeah that's the algorithm practically..

Listen this problem that we're talking about only arises when we're talking about definite numbers. Indefinite plurals it's normal, a singular and a plural.

So if it's possible can i retain the old plural function (for the indefinite) and this new plural function (definite), just tell me how to use them though.. --Giangian15 12:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Revreview-edited ("Your changes will be displayed to readers once an authorized user accepts them. ([[MediaWiki:Validationpage|help]])

There are $2 pending changes (shown below) awaiting review.") == I think, that the text must be in one row. Because there is different displaying:

One row:

'''Edits will be incorporated into the [[{{MediaWiki:Validationpage}}|stable version]] once an established user reviews them.The ''draft'' is shown below.''' [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}|oldid=$1&diff=cur}} $2 {{PLURAL:$2|change awaits|changes await}}] review.

Edits will be incorporated into the [[MediaWiki:Validationpage|stable version]] once an established user reviews them.The draft is shown below. $2 changes await review.

(first two sentences are bold)

Two rows:

'''Edits will be incorporated into the [[{{MediaWiki:Validationpage}}|stable version]] once an established user reviews them.
The ''draft'' is shown below.''' [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}|oldid=$1&diff=cur}} $2 {{PLURAL:$2|change awaits|changes await}}] review.

Edits will be incorporated into the [[MediaWiki:Validationpage|stable version]] once an established user reviews them. The draft is shown below. $2 changes await review.

(first and last sentences are bold) --Ahonc 14:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

This could be solved by changing where the bold markers are placed (adding some to the end of the first line and start of the second line), while maintaining the two line split (which is undoubtedly a good thing). I will make this change now. MinuteElectron 11:03, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
This has been fixed. MinuteElectron 11:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
But why did you not put in one row?--Ahonc 20:55, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Splitting it in to multiple line reduces ambiguity of the bold syntax ensuring that translators do not also make a mistake and anyone modifying the message also does not. It also makes changes more obvious when viewed in the subversion repository. MinuteElectron 19:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Too long an confusing topic. If any questions remain, please restate them, and use less confusing formatting with proper indentation! Siebrand 10:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

New LanguageDsb.php and changes in LanguageHsb.php

I made a new LanguageDsb.php because it had Upper Sorbian grammar rules for any reason. Would you be so kind committing it and checking it for any missing braces? Thank you.

Besides: Could you delete the lines with else in the grammar forms for instrumental and lokatiw in LanguageHsb.php and change, if necessary, the number of braces? Those else lines are not correct because they add the prepositions z resp. wo for projects where they are not allowed to be if the project is another one than such that is mentioned in the grammar forms of LanguageHsb.php. So here in Upper Sorbian interface of Betawiki is shown a double preposition "wo" on the bottom of the page in abouttitle message Wo wo Betawiki instead Wo Betawiki. Kind regards, --Michawiki 16:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Not going to update this. Wikimedia specific configuration should not take place in MediaWiki. Request this to be configured on the Wikimedia farm though bugzilla:. Also see bugzilla:14165. Siebrand 20:20, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Links to mediawiki.org

Hi. Is it possible to add links to mediawiki.org in special:translate. like this.--Alnokta 09:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Niklas can put it on his list, but this is eye candy that will definately get a low priority. Siebrand 10:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Needs to be put on a task list. Siebrand 19:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Put on feature request list. Siebrand 10:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Rephrase Globalblocking-block-success ("The IP address $1 has been blocked on all projects.")

The message Globalblocking-block-success ("The IP address $1 has been blocked on all projects.") should be rephrased to make it more general and not Wikimedia specific i.e. remove the word "Wikimedia". --Meno25 18:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Will be taken care of after 1.13 release. Siebrand 08:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Same for Globalblocking-blocked ("Your IP address $5 has been blocked on all wikis by $1 ($2).

The reason given was "$3". The block $4."). --Meno25 11:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done Siebrand 19:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Categorytree-mode-pages

In MediaWiki:Categorytree-mode-pages, there is a reference to "images", which, imho, should better be worded "media", if I am not mistaken. --Purodha Blissenbach 19:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Done Done ("file"). Siebrand 19:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Intersection-desc

The German and the English text of MediaWiki:Intersection-desc are contraticitve. I cannot tell which is correct. Just in case, the Englisch ("union", not "intersection") was good, I've created a German translation here which you can use. Otherwise leave the German translation as is, delete "my" one from this wiki, and alter the English one. Thank you. --Purodha Blissenbach 15:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

The English message should be "intersection". /Lejonel 11:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
The previous German message is correct, then. --Purodha Blissenbach 19:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
You can mark fixed items with {{done}} :) – Nike 10:35, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Done Done, only some messages now need to be fuzzied. - Or does that happen automagically? --Purodha Blissenbach 15:10, 29 July 2008 (UTC)