unclear word order

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unclear word order

With this word order it is not clear here if the persons created the fields ("Felder") or the curators ("Kuratoren"). Other changes are great. More precise:

Bearbeiten von Feldern ist nur den Personen erlaubt, die sie erstellt haben, und den Kuratoren
Lib2know (talk)22:08, 3 August 2015

Nur Kuratoren und Personen, die sie erstellt haben, dürfen Felder bearbeiten.

Still formally ambiguous but sematically obvious.

Purodha Blissenbach (talk)20:11, 5 August 2015

Your solution is shorter, but moves the subject and main verbs to the very end of the sentence. Semantically it says now clearly: Only curators and persons, which created them (=the curators), are allowed to edit fields.

What i don't understand: I made a suggestion and you made no point to criticise. So why don't you agree? But without hesitation you produce a different suggestion. Was there any mistake in my suggestion?

Lib2know (talk)23:10, 5 August 2015

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Return to Thread:INaturalist talk:Fields can only be edited by the people who/de/unclear/reply (3).

Good mentions, thank you. In most parts i agree. Especially:

* Initial article not used but others - no, no. :-)
* something "ist nur den Personen erlaubt, die" is a bureaucratic kind of wording - not commonly liked.

Still, talking about "good german" it is mostly recommended to move the predicate ("dürfen", "erlauben") to the first possible part of a sentence. Having it at the very end makes understanding harder (except the sentence is very short). And still, a sentence with matching syntax and semantics might be better. Your translation sounds more common but is not precise. In a love letter it should sound nicer but an user interface should be more precise, shouldn't it?

According to that and your mentions i would conclude:

Das Bearbeiten von Feldern ist denjenigen erlaubt, die sie erstellt haben, sowie Kuratoren.

I agree either:

* ", und" with an ongoing or recurring semantic thread is bad German.

But i don't agree the enumaration as a recurring semantic thread has a higher importance here, than making clear which is the reference of the relative clause. Maybe "sowie" makes it somewhat smoother even if it doesn't change the construction as such.

Finally, though i think the sentence should be changed i won't touch this controversial item. I learned a lot on that example, your ideas and the discussions. Thank you!

Lib2know (talk)14:32, 11 August 2015
Das Bearbeiten von Feldern ist denjenigen erlaubt, die sie erstellt haben, sowie Kuratoren.

sounds good to me.

"Sowie" is smoother here indeed. This is, because it more likely implies a little Pause before it, than "und".

Whether or not a formulation with "dürfen" or "erlauben" is preferable, depends on style, and what other related messages use (which I do not know).

Thanks. Also I am happily learning from these discussions. :-)

Purodha Blissenbach (talk)17:29, 12 August 2015

Yes, your suggestion of "dürfen" spares a partizip and a nominalisation :-)

 Felder bearbeiten dürfen nur diejenigen, die sie erstellt haben, sowie Kuratoren.

And so shoooooort ! I added a the translation of "only". As far as i understood we found a good solution. So i make the change. Feel free to change if i am not right.

Lib2know (talk)20:43, 12 August 2015