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14:04, 12 August 2020 Verdy p (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Re-enabling exports for Marwari (rwr))
00:38, 12 August 2020 सदस्य (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Re-enabling exports for Marwari (rwr))
22:47, 6 August 2020 Verdy p (talk | contribs) Comment text edited  
22:47, 6 August 2020 Verdy p (talk | contribs) Comment text edited  
22:47, 6 August 2020 Verdy p (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Re-enabling exports for Marwari (rwr))
22:23, 6 August 2020 सदस्य (talk | contribs) New thread created  

Re-enabling exports for Marwari (rwr)

I'm trying to do interface translations for Marwari (specifically, language code rwr). There is already a rwr portal page that states it is disabled, so I don't think I need to request a new language. I'm guessing that's because there were no translators listed - if that's the case, could you please re-enable? Thanks!

सदस्य (talk)22:23, 6 August 2020

No, you need to ask for the admins to enable the translation for it.

  • You can be more convinting here, by showing that there are ongoing efforts on Wikimedia Incubator, with some other users, and inviting a few of them to register themselves on this wiki (with their own local account), and on the Portal.
  • Be ready to be active for translating fast at least the core mediawiki messages (about 700 messages), and be active with Wikimedia admins so that they import the translations on Incubator for your tests, and then check there if that's usable.
  • With that, you'll get more people on that wiki, and you'll get more translators to complete the process and start translating non-core messages.
  • Be also ready to discuss on that wiki with that new community about terminology choices or ambiguities.
  • Discuss as well for linguistic features such as orthographic conventions, the possible need of transliterations (you can help by creating also a Wiktionary test or a wikibooks test to publish your terminologic guides) and how to translate technical terms. The first steps (core messages ) are important because they will determine the essential terminology and you'll need to be consistent and there will be some disagreement or multiple propositions that may be hard to decide at the beginning and difficult to change later.
  • Ideally you should also look at how "similar" languages have been translated, so you should also consider comparing with other languages used in the same or nearby regions and not just your native one. also accept that there may be variants preferred in other regions, and some way to choose something that will be acceptable by most (but not necessarily all your users).

The fact that there's a banner at top of pages just signals that the translation interface is still not opened for that language (so you can't select it, it you try, you may fall to the translation interface for another language. Also Be ware that Marwari is a macrolanguage that have several variants with different codes. As still, none of the member languages for that macrolanguage have any translation, so may be it would be helpful to get translators for a few other member languages in that macrolanguage, so you could eventually choose a common terminology that could be reused with little adaptation for other member languages with less efforts: not all these languages are spoken in India, so be ready to discuss as well with other native speakers in other countries or living abroad, even if for one given member language you follow the terminology and choices endorsed by a local academic reference). Wikimedia is international and does not necessarily adheres to a single national authority.

Now if you really want to start translatiung the UI for your Incubator test, ask for it here (I don't think this language has ever been exported, or it was asked at some time by someone but never followed by efforts. Languages that are enabled here must have some use on a known wiki or have an active community. And ideally this community should not be reduced to a single user. So invite some of your followers in Incubator to sustain your request. Thanks.

Verdy p (talk)22:47, 6 August 2020

Thank you for the detailed response! There is a Wikimedia Incubator here, but there are not many active contributors (at present, I think it's just me). I'm also unsure if I alone can translate all 700 messages quickly. Considering what you've said, I'm think we'll probably have to wait a bit until there are more people to start translating the interface.

सदस्य (talk)00:38, 12 August 2020

Ok, so develop a bit further the incubator in that language (even if the UI itself is still not translated, you can add content there, to attract more people). Then together you'll register the users in the portal, and will together ask to translate the UI ; you'll start by the 700 core messages, if you're active enough, this will be loaded in Wikimedia Incubator for continuing your tests there with this UI in beta stage in Incubator.

The initial phase for these ~700 core messages is important: you'll probably have to change various messages multiple times to get a consensus and have a coherent UI. You may not need to translate all the 700 but at least a significant number (about 85% should be enough to allow them to exported from and imported first in your Incubator wiki).

As consensus will progress, you may have these messages also used for other incubator projects (Wikipedia is not just the one you'll want to experiment, probably a Wiktionary edition will be useful to document your terminology, and some Wikisource for importing some important texts usable as a reference, such as local laws, or famous literature or religious texts).

You'll have to make sure that Marwari is not confused between the variant used in India and Pakistan, using different scripts. Note that these variants have different scripts, but both scripts may be used: one of them is just prefered in India, another (Perso-Arabic) prefered in Pakistan but they both exist in both countries.

You should also work with Wikimedia admins and together with other contributors if you need to develop a transliterator, which could first start as a local Javascript gadget and could finally become a variant requiring new language codes if transliteration is just approximative. If there's such variant defined, you may then request adding these variants in this wiki to adapt the UI as well for different scripts.

Starting a new language is a long patient work. The initial steps are not easy and must not be negected: it's less important to have big statistics on tyhe number of messages translated than to have the base core functional, tested, vetted with other users that could help you find better alternatives you did not initially thought about. That's why it's important to develop a local community: The Wikimedia incubator can help you develop it and then demonstrate that it is active and that it interests more users. And the only way to interest more users is to start developing content in that language, for various topics of use (in my opinion, developing a dictionnary and starging trascripting some important cultural texts are the most important goal; don't waste too much efforts on creating a custom presentation and layout and many templates except some navigation boxes that will link the esssential content and will allow more users to find them and then start expanding them).

Verdy p (talk)14:04, 12 August 2020