User talk:RobertL

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Welcome to Betawiki!

Hi MinuteElectron. Welcome to Betawiki! Please create a user page on which you describe which language(s) you will be working on. If you are going to be an active user here, please also add your name to the languages you will be working on. Before you can use Special:Translate, and Special:Magic, please request translator rights. If you have a wiki where a lot of translations have already been made, you can make an import request. Other useful pages are linked in the menu that comes with this message.

Once you have started translating, your work will be committed to the standard product every few days. If you want to explicitely request your work to be added, please make a request for commit.

I wish you a productive and pleasant stay. Cheers! Meno25 10:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. MinuteElectron 15:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


In the betawiki newsletter, there is written that you were working on a Babel-Extension for MediaWiki. Good thing. I've been contemplating the same. I've discussed this, and some related ideas, with User:GerardM about a year ago. In the Wikipedia of the Ripuarian languages, I've collected all Babel related texts I could find in several dozens of wikis for about 270 language codes, see this directory, see this explanaton of the scheme, and the sample page for English. Vary the code at the end of the URLs, so as to inspect others.

  • I'd like to suggest to offer additional Zxxx (script codes as of ISO 15924) for those languages having more than one script used, e. g. Khasakh, Kurdi, etc.
  • I'd like to likewise suggest offering additional orthography indicators for those (Macro)languages having more than one generally used system of orthography, which we have already for nds, zh, e. g.

If you want to discuss, or if you'd like assistance of any kind, feel free to address me. If I can help, I shall help. Greetings. --Purodha 01:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Replied on mw:User_talk:MinuteElectron#Babel-Extension. MinuteElectron 15:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
  • As to the messages, I can easily supply some 1000 messages in the language that is being talked about from the data, we that have collected. This extension itself is talking in the language of the wiki or in the uselang= language, which is not the same. So I see less use for the data as ist currently is.

Could you please take a look at Support#Babel extension: male/female forms? --EugeneZelenko 18:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. MinuteElectron 15:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
You asked:
I had someone else ask me about orthogrpahy -- so it seams that it is a desirable feautre -- does anyone know where I can get a full list of them for incoroporating into the extesnsion? MinuteElectron 12:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
See - there you'll find tarask towards the end of the list. Also follow the relevant links in the "reated links" section.
(Note, there is currently a minor bug in the above page which truncates mutli-line comments. Either refer to the iana web site or temporary URL [1] or use [2] on your own machine, to get around it) --Purodha Blissenbach 10:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
It has been decided that orthorgaphy's are too far out of scope of the extension for incorporation (Babel is intended to represent languages solely), they are a very political issue and often cause disagreements and tension. Thank you for pointing me to this anyway. MinuteElectron 11:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

script codes

As to the script codes in general: It may be useful to indicate script knowledge for few languages. We currently have roughly half a dozen languages having more than one script. While presenting a plain lanugage code, say und, should likely be understood implying that a user reads and writes all relevant scripts, one should be able to indicate absence of knowledge by using a script code (without mentioning the others, that is), e.g. und-Cyrl (Cyrillic) so as to tell that a user is unlikely to understand, say, und-Arab (Arabic).
This is, however, needing more discussion, and should be seen as an extension to the Babel extension.
See also bug 14010, and read the papers mentioned there in comment 2.
We can go to quite some level of detail, and with some (few) wiki projects, and localizations, we do already. At least these projects, I believe, should be refelected in the Babel system on the long run. (But then the question arises, why not make it simple, and include all possibilities?) --Purodha Blissenbach 10:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
The topic of script codes is a very interesting idea, and may indeed be free of controversy enough for acceptance. I'll have to discuss this with Nike and Siebrand, however if it is agreed then it may be implemented at some point. MinuteElectron 11:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

male / female versions

I translated most messages meanwhile, but I am uncertain about the point wheter or not I should have thanslated the female/male version to Kölsch (ksh). The language allows for both message versions with explicit gender, and without. So I choose to translate them all. If that is correct, the help text for the translation should imho state that more clearly. I interpret the current text as "if there is a chance for a good genderless expression in the language, stick with it". Greetings. --Purodha Blissenbach 10:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The male/female/neuter messages are optional. That is a pretty clear indication that they are (most probably) not required. As for the message documentation: please add it. It's a wiki, you can change it! :P Siebrand 11:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
I made a template for the Babel extension message descriptions due to the vast number, I will review this and perhaps modify it as needed; although I thought it was sufficiently accurate. MinuteElectron 11:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Difference between -x and -x-n messages

This extension contains interface messages named babel-0, babel-1, (etc) and babel-0-n, babel-1-n, (etc). What is the difference between these two sets? (message text looks very similar)(where these are used?) -yyy 10:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If you read the message description this would be obvious, the -x messages have three parameters, while the -x-n messages only have two (the third being replaced by the localisation of the language name). MinuteElectron 11:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but the intended rendering seems to be meant to be the same (in -x-n messages just last parameter is hardcoded). Also, where are used -x messages? (it looks like the babel box uses only -x-n) -yyy 11:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
They are used when the language they are in is not the same as the language the box is describing, used when no translation is available in that language. MinuteElectron 12:37, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I just tried on -1 message (on cu language (i actually do not understand it, it just is not translated and can be used for testing purpoese)), which i had translated a while ago, but that box showed up in english (in preview). Or maybe i am getting something completely wrong? These (-x messages) actually can show up in betawiki? -yyy 13:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Localising the names of languages

Hi, I'm working on Venetian translations. Actually on Translating:Languages I see for every language the name in Italian (my default fallback) and the native name. Where can I traslate this names to Venetian? And are this names used somewhere on wikipedia or only locally in betawiki? GerardM told me to talk to you for these informations. Thanks. Candalua 11:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Currently the message names are sourced from two places, if the 'babel-*-n' message exists for your particular language then the language name will be within the message itself so does not need localising elsewhere. In the event a localaised 'babel-*-n' message is not found then the message name is taken from the CLDR extension, you can speak to User:Nike about this. You may have also just noticed a bug, I will look into this later today. Thanks. MinuteElectron 13:23, 30 April 2008 (UTC)