Don't write in Hebrew

Don't write in Hebrew

You created a list of translated names of writing systems in Hebrew.

I deleted it. That list is wrong. I don't have time to explain all the ways in which it is wrong. It can't be right for a simple reason: You don't know Hebrew.

Writing translations in a language you don't know just to fill a list does more harm than good.

Don't write in Hebrew on translatewiki, or on any Wikimedia website. It's not the first time I'm asking you not to write in Hebrew. Not with machine translation, not with a dictionary, not with anything. Don't write in Hebrew.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)20:36, 21 March 2022

Where? I don't fill any "list". If there are *isolated* things they come from existing resources used elsewhere also in isolation (e.g. Wikipedia article names related to exactly the same topics, or in Wikidata).

Verdy p (talk)20:41, 21 March 2022

At Template:Scriptname/he. I deleted it.

You also did it for Russian. You somehow got lucky and most of it is correct, but this doesn't mean you should try your luck again, in any language. Most of the time you'll be wrong.

Please, don't ever write in languages you don't know. There are plenty of volunteers here who can write in their languages. Correct English is better than a bad machine translation.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)21:04, 21 March 2022
Edited by author.
Last edit: 21:21, 21 March 2022

These are not translated messages, but part of a generic list that is specific to this site. And it has all the links needed to contribute it. And for a page where it says that only English and French are normative and all others are informative. I made lot of searches on these terms to find what seemed to be the most relevant terms. This never came from an automatic translator.

You may disagree on one term and change them, but even the ISO 15924 standard lsits several common terms in English or French (that why there are codes, and not jsut names). And this does not alter at all the codification and their use.

They came from sources that already cite ISO 15924 as a reference, (inclmuding Hebrew Wikipedia, or Russian Wikipedia, or Wikidata). May be these other common sources are not accurate or incomplete. fixing them would, work and fixing them in this local template is very easy as well.

Simple deletion of a template you did is just harmful, it does not work and breaks pages that attempt to display something, using relevant fallbacks.

Verdy p (talk)21:15, 21 March 2022

Where is this "other ISO 15924 list in Hebrew"?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)21:20, 21 March 2022

These sources are not difficult to find, e.g. L10n support for Linux in Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora (those are using LGPL most often, but sometimes use CC0 or dual licencing for use in their documentation sites) and various other common translation projects (including CLDR data, where it was "vetted by experts", others are marked as "provisional").

Other sources use CCBYSA (Wikipedia), or CC0 (Wikidata). Comparing them can help find the best matches and common alternates. The terms are taken isolately, compared separately. No collection is taken as a whole. And isolated terms like these then become out of scope of copyright (the adhoc database copyright applies only to a "significant" part of the database, if it can be isolated as coming from one source only, but as items are validatred separately with different sources compared or fixed separately, and they originately come from the common langage found in many dictionnaries and in public domain publications... licencing is not an issue for each term, fixed by multiple people aat different times). The assembly of these code lists (and their presentation) however fall into this site licence.

If you're concerned about Hebrew, I suggest you complete the missing data. This won't be long for you.

I made the "framework" for it so that it can be done easily and for almost all cases these were never made "complete" for 100% of scripts (it. included fallbacks to English already, annotated with a "FIXME" comment so that the list could contain all codes without providing a translation). I patiently made the search item by item. But you lazily deleted everything without any prior asking about what could be done.

And you could as well review Wikidata entries that are linked to ISO 15924 codes: these are the data that will be the most likely reused across all projects for designating languages and scripts).

Verdy p (talk)21:47, 21 March 2022

You are not answering the question. Give me a direct URL to your source of data about Hebrew, from which you copied these names.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)22:32, 21 March 2022

You blind deletion (dropping all including the history) is just abusive. If you don't want to contribute, let others do that. (And yes it is necessary (and used!)

You don't need precise URLs, there are MANY found in many packages and repositories (I just proposed a few of them, there are others, such as L10n packages fpr LibreOffice, OpenOffice, GNU C libraries, even Windwos itself, and many related tools like charmaps, and font information tools). A Basic translationis needed at least for a few languages using that script (Hebrew, Yiddish, Eastern Yiddish, Kurdish...) incmluding for naming their variants without Bidi rendering issues (when micing the auonoym in Hebrew script, and the script name as a complement).

Saying that this is not needed when it is a very common resource that is fast and easy to generate for siuch a wellknown script) is just false, given the numlber of L10N packages and projects that need these names (and not just the English or French name or just the script code itself).

Verdy p (talk)06:33, 22 March 2022

Are you familiar with the expression "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up"? If you seriously think that I cannot identify an incorrect machine translation into Hebrew or Russian, you're terribly wrong. This does more harm than good.

Do not use machine translation to translate into languages you don't know. Period. Last year, I and several other people demanded you stop doing this with templates on Meta. Now you are doing it here. Stop doing it. If you do it again, you'll be blocked.

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)07:18, 22 March 2022

There's nocrime because all that is my creation. I did not translate any word from other people. I just formalized what others have already used and written, giveing the sources, and allowing others also to contribute, by documenting everything (so that eny one could "fix" what I wrote if they wish,; but not delete everything like what you did. And it has been useful for many people since long now.

It's not perfect, it's not complete for languages other than English and French, and it will continue to evolve over time (very slowly, as it is easy to maintain, and that's not a lot of data; it can be done code by code, and that's how this started and evolved over time since years, lot of people if fixed a few things or added, I never forbid them to do that).

And this is just data, not real text (there are no sentences), limited to one term (or a few alternates because there are multiple sources), always in isolation, and with many usages in many generic apps. Its purpose is to to accelerate and simplify the process to open this site to other languages. And it was made so that any one could contribute.

Verdy p (talk)10:53, 22 March 2022

Did you discuss this edit with anybody?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)12:05, 11 August 2022

It was already part of an existing template that previously used a switch that you had validated, and now use the Int: namespace. No change at all in the value, it's exactly like before when it was in a template. And it was many months ago. Any nothing prevented you to review it again like anyone, of course all is to be reviewed; but there's nothing new here it fills a gap that previously was not present when it was inside a template. It's just that you have placed that resource finally in the Translate UI adn discover it just now.

Verdy p (talk)13:46, 11 August 2022

Do you have a link to that switch that I validated?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)15:34, 11 August 2022
 

Can you please answer the question?

Amir E. Aharoni (talk)11:38, 13 August 2022