GRAMMAR

In some translated messages, it may be possible to find a formulation that does not depend on the grammatical gender (or sometimes plural) of the entity, and does not require any conjugation. For example, instead of translating "$1 sent a message sent to $2", you would translate it as if it was "message sent (sender: $1; recipient(s): $1)". Such trick is used in Russian, for example, but often requires adding some punctuation and some reordering, so that variables can be used in isolation form. However the result may not always be as easier to understand than just keeping a single form assuming a default gender, a default plural form, a default grammatical case or a default article.

Handling the case of contractions and internal mutations can be very tricky with a basic transformation rule that would ignore lot of exceptions and common usages.

The same is true when you attempt to derive an language name into an adjectival form, because the language name is sometimes plural and may also include already the term translating "language" that you'd want to use with the translated adjectival form of the language name: this cannot be done if the translation is just a single text and does not self-contains any metadata for correctly reducing its set of possible derivations, and finally select the best one at end of the text generation.

If there still remains multiple choices, each one of these choices should have at least one distinctive metadata, or should be sorted by order of occurence in the set, or better distinguished by some given or computable "score" metadata; one such computable score could be to use the shortest formulation, but an actual metadata score may contain some tag indicating a more common modern usage, or tags for politeness or level of formality.

If the text output is in MediaWiki or HTML or some other rich text format, it may even be possible to not make any predetermined choice, by using a rendering form based on dynamic features (provided by HTML or Javascript or similar), which could take into account user preferences, so that the actual display text may be derived on the client side (there are some examples in Wikipedia, where the generated text contains some microtagging semantic features, allowing such client-side modifications of the visible contents; this occurs for example with dates or with some accessiblity features; however the server or application using those "rich messages" must be prepared to be able to deliver the accessibility tool, or should document and standardize the microtagging system it uses. And such thing is not just needed for translation, it could be useful as well in any monolingual content (even in English only). So this is not just a problem of "internationalisation" (18n) or "regionalisation" (r15n) but more generally a problem of "localisation" (l10n). You have a good example with the orthograph of quoted words in the last sentence (is it an "s" or a "z" in English?).

Verdy p (talk)21:34, 25 December 2022

Personally, I don't see a real problem. A person using the site (origin of messages) will know how to use these templates correctly. If there is an error, the translator will come back here to correct it... And if he's nice :) he will complete the documentation ("Information about message") to help others so that he doesn't the same error!

Ghybu (talk)06:19, 26 December 2022

Yes but a template-based solution will not work on all wikis if these are generic Mediawiki messages (e.g. to be deployed to Miraheze, or elsewhere). The doc may however be linked and shared on Mediawiki-Wiki. Such thuing cannot be decided isolately.

Verdy p (talk)13:13, 26 December 2022

It's already decided. There is a Grammar parser function and we want to utilize it only for SITENAME and Usernames. Why are you complicating this even more? "message sent (sender: $1; recipient(s): $1)" is not always possible to implement and we need declensions for SITENAME. For example we have to omit SITENAME on MediaWiki:Searchsuggest-search/ku-latn or use "SITENAME: Lê bigere" which is not ideal at all. We encounter SITENAME in translations enough to require utilizing something that already exists. Can we stop discussing issues in Localization please and start doing something about our problem?

Balyozxane (talk)19:33, 26 December 2022