Hausa in the United States

You ignored me:

I'm sure that *someone* speaks Greek in Russia: is Greek a "language of Russia"?

Koavf (d) (en-N/en-US, es-2/es-US, de-1, pt-1)23:26, 15 July 2019

But Russia recognizes many languages in its local regions (many are sourced in EN.WP). Your question about Greek in Russia is unrelated to this topic.

I've not checked but may be they exist. (for example German or Yiddish are officially recognized in some parts of Russia, just like are various Central Asian languages). Russia is definitely not a country where a single language is official (such situation is rare in fact... except France where only French is recognized, even if there are also "regional languages" with limited cultural-only support (or just for international relations), and many other minority languages not recognized at all (e.g. Arabic, Vietnamese, Chinese or English).

What matters is not that "someone" speaks a language somewhere, but if there is a significant majority or granted official or national status (for classing in "Category:Official languages of X"), or a *recognized* minority (for listing in "Category:Languages of X", which already contains the "Category:Official languages of X" subcategory).

I did not decided this rule, it was already effective before and documented (this started by the languages of India, which has hundreds languages, and also Pakistan and Bangladesh, whose classification was started in this wiki years ago, and never contested, but never terminated as there were various missing languages that this wiki already supports).

I just reapplied the same existing rule consistantly for other locations. The same rule is also used in Wikipedia for designing its infoboxes for pages about languages (and the consensus comes from it, I've not changed it at all).

Once good criteria used by Wikipedia for including "recognized minority language" in a country, is the fact this country operates or finances directly (by law or for most of its working budget) a regulator or academy or terminology agency for that language for its use in that country, and asks to that agency to give advisory (generally for the redaction of administrative documents, laws or in official education programs), or that it finances programs on public broadcasting in that country (if we apply this to France, then English, Spanish, Arabic and German become "languages of France", because of the "France24" (4 languages: fr,en,es,ar) and ARTE (bilingual: fr, de) public channels on TV; ARTE being a bit special as it is a public cooperation between France and Germany, but they are still not "official languages of France").

If such regulator/academy/agency also cooperates internationally with similar regulators/academies/agencies for the same language used in other countries or international organizations, it gives a stronger sign that this language must be included.

Verdy p (talk)23:32, 15 July 2019

"if there is a significant majority or granted official or national status... or a *recognized* minority"

Hausa in the United States is not. Gujarati is not (it's 0.124% of the population). Greek is not. Etc. Stop adding these categories.

"I did not decided this rule, it was already effective before and documented"

Source?

And any system that *doesn't* include Brezhong as a language of France is obviously mistaken.

Koavf (d) (en-N/en-US, es-2/es-US, de-1, pt-1)00:30, 16 July 2019

Correction: Brezhoneg (this one language of MY native region in France, but that unfortunately learned only superficially, due to lack of support in schools, even in Britanny, today it's still difficult to find places in bilingual Breton-French schools in Britanny, due to limited public support, even from the region or department and total lack of support by the state, and due to small number of professors; it is just a bit easier in Western Britanny; the situation is worse for Gallo the native oïl language in Eastern Britanny, which is incorrectly classified as being a "French" dialect, when it is in fact somewhere betwen Angevin, Poitevin and Noouorman and as far from standard French as can be Picard or Wallon that are also two of my other native languages spoken in my family in Northern France, Belgium and the Nertherlands; other languages in my very near family are Dutch and Limburgish but I don't understand them vocally, I can only read them and write them a bit with lots of faults; I'm better in German, that I learned at school, along with Classic Latin, some Greek, and some Spanish, or with Genovese Italian that I have used when working in Northern Italy). Breton is a really complex language (notably because of its numerous mutations of words, typical of Celtic languages, but also because of its dialectal diversity which did not help improving its support in education between different parts of the Britanny region)

I have no intent to forget it as a language of France (in fact it is already listed in Portal:Fr in the see also section at bottom, along with a few other languages), but here also it won't be an "official language".

The rules were documented in this wiki since years for languages of India (in its category) and it was NEVER contested for years.

They were discussed since long in EN.WP as well. We may rediscuss them here, but you canot deny that this was never discussed and that this was a frequent subject of talks in EN.WP for including some languages or not. The design of its infoboxes, the fact that it lists "minority languages" and makes many attempts to source them is evidently the result of a long consensus, and I don't want to renew it with another consensus discussed just by a pair of users (you and me). I prefer to avoid such conflicts by using what was patiently built on EN.WP.

Verdy p (talk)00:38, 16 July 2019

"The rules were documented in this wiki since years for languages of India (in its category) and it was NEVER contested for years. "

Again: Source please?

Nowhere on Wikipedia does it say that Hausa is a language of the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Languages_of_the_United_States

Koavf (d) (en-N/en-US, es-2/es-US, de-1, pt-1)01:39, 16 July 2019

There's been some cleanup recently, but there are still some tracks left, starting in 2011.

https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Category%3AIndia&type=revision&diff=3374142&oldid=3374093

There were also mentions in archived pages for India. The three categories for India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are here since extremely long. There were also (non working) attempts to do that for other languages in China. Multiple portals have tried to link them without coherence. In some cases these links were done in talk pages. This has long been a desire (with multiple evidences) to unify that, and multiple users on this wiki have thanked me for finding such solution (including several admins of this wiki, and the main admin that has checked every day what I did and thanked me once; I had several thanks from translators of several "minor" but official languages used in Central Europe or in South Asia, including in India which have difficulties to manage their many languages).

Sorting languages correctly is also important for this wiki to see how much they are distinguished, and it may also be used to justify the addition of their support. It can also help contributors to avoid confusing these languages and mixing translations. A minimal organization is needed when only the organization by mere language codes (not always very clear) often creates a confusion (not all users can understand the classification and names used in English, we've seen multiple errors in the past in various Wikimedia projects because of these confusions (and some of them are still not corrected years after they were signaled).

Verdy p (talk)01:43, 16 July 2019