Request for nog-cyrl and nog-latn codes of Nogai language

I did also see that in the books was written without the letters Q and Ğ. I think we can put the letters out in Portal:Nog/Latn-Cyrl transliteration

TayfunEt. (talk)10:53, 8 May 2022

I had already noted that case for 'Q' in a prior message, but also noted cases where the Cyrillic version was also using a distinctive digram (as a Cyrillic K followed by a hard sign). I think this case applies to words borrowed from Arabic or Persian (probably islamic or for other religions in the Caucasian and Mesopotamian region, which also used the Arabic script, including Arabic, Persian, Chechen, Urdu, and Jewish dialects of these languages, may be even from Armenian or Georgian).

This is not uncommon for other Turkic/Altaic languages of the Caucase and of Central Asia (possibly up to Western and Northern and China or Southeastern Russia, with historic additional contacts with Mongols). Tatars have followed the long and complex path of the former Mongol Empire (before it collapsed under the expansion of multiple empires, Chinese, Persian, Arabic, Ottoman and Russian, with various invasions and migrations, and propagation of cultures borrowing many words commonly used for religion and governement; these migrations are not terminated, as international borders are still changing, and are still highly disputed today).

For the case of 'ğ Ğ', I wonder if this comes from the contacts with Abkhazian, Georgian or Armenian... or even from Romanian (which, like also English or Italian, has two pronunciations of the Latin letter 'g G', i.e. hard as /ɡ/, or soft as /ʤ/; in French the hard/soft phonetic distinction for the Latin letter 'g G' is between /ɡ/ and /ʒ/) In the Cyrillic script, it is natural to append the hard and soft signs after the base consonnant in a digram to make this distinction (however the cyrillic soft sign usually also applies a vocalic change into a diphtong more or less based on a /j/, and Russian has specific letters for them).

Also there's a possible influence of the former Glagolitic alphabet that was used before Cyrillic (in Old Russian, also in Old Georgian): Glagolitic had distinct letters for the unaspirated 'KH', versus the "aspirated" 'KHH', and also had distinct letters for the unaspirated 'G', versus the aspirated 'GH'). As well the Armenian alphabet distinguishes "g" from "g‘" with distinctive Armenian letters (adding an apostrophe when transliterated today to Latin). Armenian (like also other Tatar languages) have borrowed many Turkic (Old Turkish) and Persian words or radicals. Historically as well, Greek (or "Pontic" also spoken in the Nogai region, notably all along the coasts of the Black Sea) had a supplemental "digamma" letter which was distinctive from "gamma".

Verdy p (talk)20:18, 8 May 2022
Edited by author.
Last edit: 13:48, 11 May 2022

I am trying to talk with him, you can try return your edit in Portal:Nog.

TayfunEt. (talk)04:25, 9 May 2022

No I cannot, because Amire80 made this edit war (for a language that he actually has no knowledge, he does not understand it either in Cyrillic, confuses it with Crimean Tatar, and he prenteds that the Latin script used by Nogoï is for the Turkish language, even for books published in Latin in Moscow!), but he also has blocked the page for the next 6 months ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (expires 10:29, 8 November 2022 (UTC)) [Move=Allow only administrators]).

And he has not acknowledged your messages, sent to him, he denied everything. So I doubt he understands anything.

All that can, be done is to have more people contraditing him and complaining about his abuse of privileges for enforcing his own rules on a topic that he does not know at all and where he will not even contribute anything. Amire80 is an admin, but ther eare a few others (but they trust Amire80 a lot and do not want to act against him, even if his real activity on this wiki is very weak). The best that can be done is in Wikimedia, with many more admins and users: they could convince "Nike" to force Amire80 to make anything on this topic and revert his abusive block. But Amire80 can also be blocked and sanctioned in Wikimedia, even if he is not here. So I suggest you follow this topic on safer areas: notably Romanian and Turkish Wikipedia (and probably Wiktionnary as well, because they are also refencing terms translated in other languages and optionally linked to their own target Wiktionnary).

If you can find facsimiles of free books, you could as well start transcript them in Wikisource. However I do not known the Nogai language at a sufficient level to make that because it requires good knowledge of the orthography (or the phonology if there's no established standard orthography, supported by dictionnaries made by reliable academic sources or wellknown publishers)

Verdy p (talk)18:15, 9 May 2022