Please note actions by [[User:Liuxinyu970226]]

Hello Mr. Nemo bis, If some sentenses that I said are really foolish, shame, and therefore inacceptable by Arthur2e5, then I would say "Sorry for my bad words, Arthur2e5."

But as this user pointed some controversial things, here're my points:

• As Special:MyLanguage/Project:About said:

  ar: Translatewiki.net ليس تابعًا لمشاريع مؤسسة ويكيميديا، ولا لأي مؤسسة أو مشروع مصدر مفتوح آخر؛ بل يُشعله Nike و Siebrand وهما مطوران لديهما خبرة طويلة في الترجمة، ومعهما فريق من العاملين.

  de: Translatewiki.net ist weder Teil der Wikimedia-Foundation-Projekte noch irgendeiner Stiftung oder eines Open-Source-Projekts.

  en: Translatewiki.net is not part of the Wikimedia Foundation projects, nor of any foundation or open source project.

  es: Translatewiki.net no es parte de los proyectos de la Fundación Wikimedia, ni de ninguna otra fundación o proyecto de código abierto.

  fi: Translatewiki.net ei kuulu Wikimedia-säätiön projekteihin eikä mihinkään säätiöön tai avoimen lähdekoodin projektiin.

  fr: Translatewiki.net ne fait pas partie des projets de la Wikimedia Foundation, ni d’aucune fondation ou projet en source libre.

  it: Translatewiki.net non fa parte dei progetti della Wikimedia Foundation, né di alcuna fondazione o progetto open source.

  ja: translatewiki.netは、ウィキメディア財団のプロジェクトの一部ではありませんし、その他の財団やオープンソースなプロジェクトの一部でもありません。

  ko: Translatewiki.net은 위키미디어 재단 프로젝트의 일부가 아니며, 또한 어떤 재단이나 오픈 소스 프로젝트도 아닙니다.

  nl: Translatewiki.net is geen onderdeel van de Wikimedia Foundation-projecten, noch van een stichting of een open source project.

  sv: Translatewiki.net är inte en del av Wikimedia Foundation-projekten, inte heller av någon stiftelse eller projekt med öppen källkod.

  vi: Translatewiki.net không thuộc các dự án của Wikimedia Foundation, và cũng không phải là tổ chức hay dự án mã nguồn mở.

  zh-hans: Translatewiki.net不属于维基媒体基金会项目，也不属于其他任何基金会或开源项目。

  zh-hant: Translatewiki.net並非維基媒體基金會的專案，亦不屬於任何基金會或開源專案。

  (Should I copy-paste anything else?) Therefore, the translations on Translatewiki.net, where possible, must be neutral between Wikimedia and non-Wikimedia environments. This user don't actually know, and think "any non-WMF wikis must also use 小作品 as the absolutely translation of stub, because stub is always from Wikipedia".

• By "Low translation quality", let's see this user's translation:
  1. Translate "extra" as "多余" (lit.unnecessary): MathJax:Tex-ExtraOpenMissingClose/zh-hant (although my translation is also same case), MathJax:Tex-MissingLeftExtraRight/zh-hant
  2. MediaWiki:Stub-threshold/zh-hans (said above)
  3. Double standard on "deprecated": Replace 不推荐使用 as 已弃用 (MediaWiki:Securehtml-form-deprecated/zh-hans, MediaWiki:Errorhandler-error-deprecated/zh-hans, MediaWiki:Templatedata-doc-param-status-deprecated/zh-hans, ...), however with an exception: MediaWiki:Antispoof-deprecated/zh-hant (reversely changed)
  4. Translate MediaWiki:Coll-rendering finished note article rdf2latex/zh-hans with "you", but actually this isn't necessary tl;dr.
• If this user is also pointing my "replace 你 by 您", that's logical expected. 你 is also used commonly as a word For reviling (the famous example of this line is 你妈, which means "your f*u*c*k*e*d mother", well, you really should translate your mother as 您妈 to be polite).
• "Poor communication skills" so what? Shizhao is also having same problem so why don't you say him? (c.f. m:Stewards/Confirm/2015/Shizhao).
• "refuses to use common terminology used on zhwiki".
  1. see Cwlin0416's case below;
  2. At least I translate template as 模板, Module as 模块, and in early months I also translate wiki as 维基 until someone told be that's a trademark, should not be used out of Wikimedia. Several of the words that I translated are already more and more Wikimedia friendly, and if you still point the "stub", Wikivoyage:互助客栈/存檔/2014年4月至6月#.28en.29_Empty_articles, where translated as 骨架条目 by @Zhuyifei1999:, so this user is also wrong?
• If you still like discussions under Wikimedia's rule, that said, m:mw:Localisation#Use_standard_capitalisation and w:WP:ALLCAPS (however, it's necessary to be ALL CAPS for MySQL commonds and some abbreviations, e.g. TWN and CREATE DATABASE...), this user don't know, I AGFed to ask Thread:User_talk:Arthur2e5/Special:Diff/6829187/reply_(14):

  "For example: <A CERTAIN HIGHLY TECHNICAL PAGE THAT NO NORMAL EDITORS SHALL TOUCH> (which MySQL commond?) What a user that can use ALL CAPS, do you know [1] (link said above)"

  Isn't this a work? [Citation needed]

This user don't reply, and still suggests that TWN should be fully following Wikipedia's rule (c.f. the Thread:Support/Code_of_Conduct? that closed by Nemo bis).

I'm very kindly to try my best knowledge to talk with you, Arthur2e5. But if you already violated AGF (isn't this also from Wikipedia that you're from?), e.g.:

• "首先我有必要告诉你..." (lit. First, I must tell you guys...)
• "我把关键的 token 指出来你还看不懂，我也是很惊讶的。" (1.lit. I pointed the key "token" to you guys, and you guys still don't understand, I'm also surprising. 2. Which "token"? 3.What form this "w:wikt:token" follows? 4.Not sure if this user is a Chinese-American or not...)

And still use a lot of unsenseful, unnecessary, uncommons, unfree, and confusing "context-context-...-context" that undocumented on time (see title of phab:T135575 for example, I believe this user won't document what "multicol-indicator-charrange-friendly" is until my point). Then I don't think that I should still be polite to you.

Liuxinyu970226, even this reply of yours sounds quite aggressive. And yes, you should still be polite. If you can't be polite with a user, just avoid interaction. Do you think you can manage?

PS: A very polite sentense to you (both Arthur2e5 and Nemo bis): 对不起，我错了，我不应该在未经讨论的情况下擅自更改已经有共识的字句，请原谅我，谢谢了。

It's fine. Just note that "consensus" is not rock-solid -- you can change it with some discussion. (One problem that arises here is that how zhwiki consensus and twn translators can agree with each other without either party feeling unhappy -- twn translators may not like the idea of joining discussions where they do not belong, while zhwiki users may not like going to twn to discuss either.)

But how about non-MediaWiki/non-Wikimedia users? as TWN is really not having MW/WM users (e.g. Mifos/iNaturalist/FreeCol users)?

I guess they can reach translators through some bug report systems like phab. This is common in other software systems...

However, this user should also say sorry to me, because in Wikimedia:Wsa-form-attending-goals/zh-hans, this user translated Wikimania as "维基狂魔会议" (lit. Wiki Monster Event? Which is not official and not acceptable by language environment), also in the entire Wikimania, the scholarship is not scholarship from university, so "奖学金" should not be used to be non-controversial

Umm hmm.

Liuxinyu970226

Translate "extra" as "多余" (lit.unnecessary) ... although my is same case

I am not sure about where you learnt your Chinese or English. 多余 more closely means "an unnecessary extra", i.e. "redundant yet sometimes harmful".

MediaWiki:Stub-threshold/zh-hans

Hmmmmm, it's my example for your noncooperation. By the way I am fine with that zh_hant terminology, just don't miss that key token.

Oh wait you also talked about what "token" means? Sorry for that programming language parser terminology. Indeed it's too technical to be used for everyday talks.

Not sure if this user is a Chinese-American or not.

Thank you for appreciating my English writing skills. I scored 28/30 on TOEFL's writing section two years ago, which is really just OK.

Double standard on "deprecated": Replace 不推荐使用 as 已弃用

This comes with a reason. Most "deprecated" statements in the software industry can be read as "obsolete" which is more straightforward; hence "已弃用" (abandoned from use). That exception comes from their notes for translators. Yeah, read the notes.

你妈

Under the same logic, I would consider the word "mother" impolite as it is used in the phrase "motherf*cker".

Let's get the scope of that informal "you" (你) right: it's always used unless the people being spoken to is more senior in age, position, etc. than the speaker, or in cases where respect is preferred over intimacy. In fact using "您" to one's fellows usually implies irony, while properly used "你" doesn't. Finding my usage of "你" ironic as a fellow translator suggests either problems with understanding contemporary Mandarin written in the Simplified Chinese or extreme self-consciousness.

MediaWiki:Coll-rendering_finished_note_article_rdf2latex/zh-hans

Now you are constructing a broken sentence without a subject, or an improperly placed imperative sentence that goes down one's throat like an edgy block of plastic.

scholarship → 奖学金

Neither is it "some random grant". This scholarship thing is, by itself, a more scholar (学) thing.

The phrase "奖学金" by itself is not limited to a university or any sort of fixed school. It's just a grant (金) rewarded (奖) for scholarly (学) things. The "奖" part used in common expressions might be debatable, yet I consider it OK because it a) shows some screening process required for scholarship applications b) that's what people use to refer to scholarships anyway.

"维基狂魔会议" (lit. Wiki Monster Event)

"sth. 狂魔" literally means "sth. crazy monster", i.e. someone is obsessed ("addicted") with sth. It's far more "manic" than the current "维基媒体国际会" (Wikimedia International Conference) translation, and I just wrote it in for fun (well...) and waiting for other to pick it up for future meetings.

Shizhao is also having same problem so why don't you say him?

Why can I always find something to comment on when I read back... You are hitting the point of bringing up loosely related topics.

BTW you are sounding a bit shizhao-狂魔 now, as you also brought him up in that stub dispute. All I can say is that people learn to use their strengths and to avoid showing their weaknesses (扬长避短).

phab

See my reply there. Break it down, piece by piece.

so this user is also wrong?

Unfortunately he must be. But for him I am very happy to use the excuse of "historical limitations" or "lack of experience", while I don't think either applies to you.

"首先我有必要告诉你..." (lit. First, I must tell you guys...)

Having some agreements is an important premise for efficient discussions, as illustrated by this quote from former PRC President Jiang Zemin: "Now I have a feeling about news that we can have different views as long as we respect the same set of truth. And, [B]eing able to correctly express both one's own ideas and the interviewee's ideas in reports is what I consider as 'high level'."

still suggests that TWN should be fully following Wikipedia's rule

I frankly don't want to go Linus Torvalds for this. Please try to disambiguate between "common wiki principles" and "wikipedia policies cited as examples".

I also translate wiki as 维基 until someone told be that's a trademark,

I agree with you on that 维基 would be a good phonetic translation. This case sounds like Stratasys trademarking "Fused deposition modeling", forcing others like RepRap to invent a new term for the same 3D printing technique. Oh wait it's not WMF but a competitor trademarking that? Now it sounds like RepRap trademarking FDM and...

Well, I don't think this trademark would be a threat as 维基百科 is still actively in use. Not to mention wikia. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.)

Nemo

Well... As I mentioned, I am supposed to be just a random guy passing by doing random contributions. To me the term mainly goes down to "stub" and more cases which he brought up in that discussion. These zhwiki sysops (User:shizhao, User:范, et al.) mentioned previously should have better knowledge of these things.

One point: "BTW you are sounding a bit shizhao-狂魔 now". No, that's not right, the users who think shizhao is a monster, according to m:Stewards/Confirm/2015/Shizhao: Universehk, Vogone, Steinsplitter, ..., seems that he is mostly made Hong Kong people angry, so far such users are mostly from Hong Kong (and so that's not me).

I do hope that you have read my explanation on the word 狂魔 above. I am not interested in discussing all these disputes related to shizhao's alleged censorship that happened elsewhere on TWN.

For the last one (i.e. about trademark), there's an archived discussion m:Talk:Trademark_practices_discussion#維基 which is useful.

The links brought are basically WMF stuff in Taiwan. Sounds better than HuDong doing that in China, but lack of proper response does annoy me. Well let's say changing that single word in some substring search won't take too many man-hours.

Oops, WMF actually have official names for Wikimania and official (or de facto) translation of scholarship. Apologies for overriding what the translated host as well as fellow translators deems right.