Support/Archive/2023/04
This is an archive page for the Support page. Do not post new threads here, they will likely not be read. If you wish to continue an archived discussion, start a new thread on the Support page and include a link to the archived discussion.Archives
I can't upload correct translation
See https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/3997 Maro21 (talk) 23:20, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
- I have replied there. Arguably we could just make the validator less strict, but that would be unfair to a few languages where this misuse of the plural system is problematic. Nike (talk) 07:49, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
- I see. I wrote here, because there they said that it was not OSM's problem and that I should report here. Now it turns out that it can be corrected on the OSM side, however.
- Yesterday I thought that the validator is only in "Special:Translate" and I thought that manually I can correct such a translation. And now I see that manually I can't either, although the message is different "The translation contains a syntax error" instead of expanded as in "Special:Translate". Maro21 (talk) 11:37, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
Demande d'ajout de la langue Dendi
Bonjour tout le monde!
je viens par la présente faire la demande d'ajout de la langue Dendi dont voici le code ISO. Je reste à votre disposition pour toute information complémentaire. Cordialement Ross.Patrick (talk) 11:47, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- For info you can register yourself on the existing Portal:ddn as a translator, and use that code in parameters of the #balel your user page. It is still marked disabled there in in the few related categories. A site admin will activate it. And will reply here hen this is done. You cannot remove the disabled statement as long as the active status is not updated on Special:ActiveLanguages/ddn at bottom of that page. Verdy p (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- This is now enabled. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:45, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
Request for inclusion of Ibibio language
Ibibio language with ISO ibb is a major language in Nigeria, spoken in the Akwa Ibom and Cross River states and has up to 10 million native speakers. We've already started writing on the incubator and will soon host a translate-a-thon to translate the messages from English to Ibibio. Nnadigoodluck (talk) 14:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
- This is now enabled. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:04, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
OpenStreetMap - mark messages as "Optional"
Please mark the following OSM strings as optional:
- Accounts.edit.public editing.enabled link ("https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Anonymous_edits")
- Accounts.edit.contributor terms.link ("https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms")
- Site.export.odbl ("Open Data Commons Open Database License")
Kastanoto (talk) 12:51, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- I tried to mark the first two as optional, but it didn't work for some reason. I reported a bug about it.
- The odbl one shouldn't be optional. It can be translated. I marked it as optional in the documentation, but it was a mistake. I have removed that template now. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:57, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
- The first two links do have matching translated pages , so these links are editable and have to be edited, once pages are translated on the main OSM wiki.
- The first one using a language prefix like "FR:", the second one with a subpage prefix like "/FR".
- But note that the OSM wiki site is inconsistant about language prefixes, as they are namespaces for a few languages, written in all capitals but not case-significant, where as all others are just case-significant prefixes on the pagename itself, where only the first letter is capitalized and not case significant, thand the next letter after the colon for the page title in English must be capitalized and becomes case-significant); note also that the OSM site does nto support the "Special:MyLanguage/" prefix with fallbacks.
- As well it is inconsitant about how to mark translations (in subpage suffixes, generally the capitalization of language codes should follow the scheme used for prefixes). In some cases, there are redirects to allow case-insensivitty working on most languages (except the few ones that have dedicated namespaces).
- Legal pages on the OSM Foundation site however are generally not translated and protected, adding a translation for them would be informative only and would require an additional warning banner pointing to the approved formal source documentation, unless the OSMF approves specific translations; but most users can't edit directly on the OSMF wiki, so only draft translations could be tested on the public OSM wiki, then reviewed and frozen on the OSMF site by their admins or the very few accepted editors).
- The last messages for ODbL is also commonly translated (this is not a link and not a pagename, there's no language code and no prefixes/suffixes, it is a plain phrase with some terms capitalized according to target language script and rules, but still displaying the common abbreviation in basic Latin). Verdy p (talk) 14:54, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
- That's exactly what makes them optional: you have the option to translate them if it's useful, but if they are just the same, you don't translate them. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 08:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
- The first two links do have matching translated pages , so these links are editable and have to be edited, once pages are translated on the main OSM wiki.
Rename
Please change my username to Nokeoo
Thanks Eitvys200 (talk) 07:12, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Nokeoo:
Done Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:35, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Remaining to be translated for Pa'O language
I would like to request the following photo file to be translated for Pa'O language, Thanks.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- @咽頭べさ: That should have happened when the wiki was created, I don't know why it didn't. I filed phab:T334351 and uploaded a fix for it; it should be fixed in a couple of days. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 15:12, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- okay thank you so much. Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 14:22, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
annoying fuzzybot
Fuzzybot marks my translations as outdated, but they are true. It focuses on my PLURAL translations that have bigger than 2 forms. MRidhaAJ (talk) 08:45, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
- @MRidhaAJ: Could you please link to an example? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 15:14, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- @MRidhaAJ: It is probably happening because
acmis not in plurals.xml. Can I assume the rules are the same as for Arabic? If so, we can add it to plurals-mediawiki.xml. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 15:16, 9 April 2023 (UTC) - If acm is one of Arabic varieties that have same as Arabic rules, I agree for you to add acm to plurals. MRidhaAJ (talk) 13:30, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- @MRidhaAJ: I don't know, I'm asking you. The plural rules for Modern Standard Arabic translated to more human-readable English are:
- A form for 0
- A form for 1
- A form for 2
- A form for numbers where the remainder when dividing by 100 is between 3 and 10 (like 3, 105, 4009, etc.)
- A form for numbers where the remainder when dividing by 100 is between 11 and 99 (like 12, 224, 397, 2023, etc.)
- A form for numbers higher than 100 and ending in 0, 1 or 2 (like 100, 201, 3002, 70000, etc.)
- Would this be correct for
acmtoo, or are there different rules? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 09:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- @MRidhaAJ: I don't know, I'm asking you. The plural rules for Modern Standard Arabic translated to more human-readable English are:
- @MRidhaAJ: It is probably happening because
Plural rules for Kildin Sámi
Hello! I would like to request a setting of plural rules for Kildin Sami language (sjd).
The rules go as follows:
- one (nominative singular)
- few (2–6, nominative plural, sometimes coincides with nom. sg.)
- other (>6, partitive)
Examples:
- English:
Joined {{PLURAL:$2|$2 year|$2 years}} ago - Kildin Sami:
Се̄брэ {{PLURAL:$2|$2 ыгкь|$2 ыгь|$2 ыгке}} маӈас
- English:
Joined {{PLURAL:$2|$2 minute|$2 minutes}} ago - Kildin Sami:
Cе̄брэ {{PLURAL:$2|$2 минута|$2 минутэдтӭ}} маӈас(the one and few forms are the same here)
Thanks in advance. Merrahtar (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Merrahtar: I can help set this up. For Inari Sámi we ended up with four different forms, because they have dual in verbs. So in a message saying something like "$1 people thanked you for your edit", you would need a dual form. But that might not be necessary – you could still use syntax like
{{PLURAL:$1|one|few|other|2=dual}}if a dual form is needed, at least in MediaWiki (other projects have their own plural rules). - Which form should be used for 0 (in Inari Sámi it is the "few" form)? And what about decimal numbers like 2.5, 9.999, etc.? In Inari Sámi those use the "other" form. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 09:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oh, and just a small note on your last example: PLURAL works so that if there are fewer forms specified than expected, the last one specified is repeated for the rest of them. So
{{PLURAL:$2|$2 минута|$2 минутэдтӭ}}would render as "$2 минутэдтӭ" if $2 is between 2 and 6, since the second form given is assumed to be for the "few" category. So for that example to render correctly, you would have to repeat the first form:{{PLURAL:$2|$2 минута|$2 минута|$2 минутэдтӭ}}. If, however, the "few" and "other" forms are the same in other circumstances, you could do what you have in your example. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 09:15, 11 April 2023 (UTC)- For 0 and decimal numbers the "few" and the "other" forms are used, respectively, just like in Inari Sami.
- Thank you for the correction, I will fix that where needed! Merrahtar (talk) 14:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note that the Mediawiki syntax requires repeating some values if they are not the same as last one specified. The syntax used still does not allow specifying the "one", "few",..., "other" selectors not even once (so not even in a space-separated or comma-separated list) before the equal sign. The equal sign is recognized only for numeral selectors (consisting only in basic digits and dot, and matching exactly with the value given to the variable specified between "PLURAL:" (with its required colon) and the next vertical bar separating the selected forms (i.e. the substitution text with an optional number and equal sign).
- As well for languages having fours standard forms or more, using the last specified form (for "other") as the default value to use for all missing forms before it may not be appropriate: the fallback rules may for example imply that if there's only 3 forms specified ("zero", "one", and "other" which is always the last one specified) on the 4 required (e.g. "zero", "one", "few", "other"), the 3rd (last) specified one ("other") currently used by MEeiaWiki is possibly not the best fallback for the 2nd missing one ("one") which in that language should be the 1st specified ("zero"). This choice to use a single fallback for all missing forms is quite arbitrary in MediaWiki, but not in CLDR. A common case is the optional "zero" form whose default may be either the "one" or "other". Unfortunately, we cannot specify these fallbacks explicitly for example as "PLURAL:$variable|zero,one=form1|form2" or equivalently as "PLURAL:$variable|other=form2|form1": the order of forms is fixed, and we cannot freely group two equivalent forms that are not the same as the "other" form always specified in last position (and the only allowed selectors are simple numbers like "0=".
- And even if a language does not have a specific standard form for "zero" (treated either as a singular or plural depending on languages), we should still be able to use "zero=anything"; translators or generation tools would no longer have to depend on the arbitrary order (which may be complex for language having more than 2 standard forms, including a rare 3rd one). For any language, Mediawiki selectors (before the "=" sign) should be accepting any generic CLDR selectors ("zero", "one", "two", "few", "many", whose fallbacks between each other is language-dependant), but as well specific numerals (note: "0", "0.0" "+0", may be distinguished for allowing specializations) and numeric ranges (e.g. "<-6 6>" for a closed range matched numerically rather than lexicographically or "<0 1<" for an half-open range), or other condition (like "int<-6 6>" for pure integers in the range, or "dec<0 1<" for a numeric range with a form including decimals like ".0"), and they should be combinable in a list of selectors (the first match found in the specified selectors is used, if there are different selector using different conditions).
- That's something that should be discussed as well in CLDR which still does not discuss how plural forms behave in specific languages if some of forms are unspecified, and does not discuss any specialization. CLDR partially considers the case of numbers with decimals, but only to create an additional form (which for now can only be the "other" form), so that other forms have complex conditions to match the other "standard" forms (best suited only for pure integers), these conditions are specified only globally for the language (in its default definitions for generic plural forms) but cannot be used specifically in specific messages.
- However Mediawiki allows specializing specific numbers, e.g. it allows converting integers "1" to "12" to month names or to spell them in the returned form (like "3=third" in English). For languages like Arabic having 6 forms, there are very requent cases where we would like to be able to specify only 2 forms, where the 1st specified form would be for the 4 first standard forms, and the last one would be for the 2 remaining standard forms (including "other"). For now, there's no way to override these fallbacks and order, so we still need to repeat some specifed values before the last one used for the default "other'" form. It would be preferable to make such thing clearer with more explicit selectors in the MediaWiki syntax (at that should be made to remain compatible with further developments discussed and standardized later in CLDR). This would also provide a transition mechanism for compatibility of translations made in MediaWiki, if ever it is decided in a specific language that it should add or remove one standard form, without having to review all existing translations using a "PLURAL:" syntax (this has already occured in some language for adding or removing a "zero" form, or merging/splitting the "many" and "other" forms). Verdy p (talk) 20:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note that the Mediawiki syntax requires repeating some values if they are not the same as last one specified. The syntax used still does not allow specifying the "one", "few",..., "other" selectors not even once (so not even in a space-separated or comma-separated list) before the equal sign. The equal sign is recognized only for numeral selectors (consisting only in basic digits and dot, and matching exactly with the value given to the variable specified between "PLURAL:" (with its required colon) and the next vertical bar separating the selected forms (i.e. the substitution text with an optional number and equal sign).
- Oh, and just a small note on your last example: PLURAL works so that if there are fewer forms specified than expected, the last one specified is repeated for the rest of them. So
- @Merrahtar: I have added a Phabricator task and a patch (waiting for review) to add PLURAL support for Kildin Sámi now. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 09:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Assistant languages missing when editing
I remember there being a box on top of the edit window that would display the message you're currently editing in the languages that you set in your Preferences. Where is that option gone? If it doesn't exist anymore, is there a way to get that back? It was quite useful. Srđan (talk) 15:05, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- I am experiencing the same problem. I don't see the machine translation, either. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:11, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- It appears to work now. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:41, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Translation in Uyghur language
Hello, in Uyghur Wikipedia is like in Pa'O language the word Wikipedia not translated. TayfunEt. (talk) 05:56, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
- @TayfunEt.: Unlike the Pa'O Wikipedia, that wasn't part of the original request to create the language (since the Uyghur Wikipedia is very old). So I think we might need a request from the community to change the name. Would you be able/willing to start such a request? It would be as simple as asking confirmation that the sitename should be set to "ۋىكىپېدىيە", and if there are no opposes within a week or so, it can be requested on Phabricator. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Jon Harald Søby, thanks for replying. I did write about it in Village pump of the Wiki; https://ug.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3A%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B1_%D8%AC%DB%95%D9%85%D8%A6%D9%89%D9%8A%D9%89%D8%AA%D9%89 TayfunEt. (talk) 09:40, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Many raw HTML messages in WikiEditor cannot be edited in translatewiki
Dear @Amire80. I am a local administrator of small kaa.wikipedia.org.
And I faced the same problem as it was discussed here: T294760 Many raw HTML messages in WikiEditor cannot be edited in translatewiki (wikimedia.org) [1].
So you promised to complete the translations, if somebody writes here. And I prepared the following table in this purpose. Please support to submit these translations into Karakalpak Language in translatewiki.
Thank you in advance Ajiniyaz Nurniyazov (talk) 12:53, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Hi!
- Thanks for asking. I'm so happy to see the quick development of the Karakalpak Wikipedia in the last few months, and the community's contributions to the localization!
- Two comments:
- I didn't translate MediaWiki:Wikieditor-toolbar-help-content-rereference-syntax/kaa and MediaWiki:Wikieditor-toolbar-help-content-showreferences-syntax/kaa because they are the same in all the languages and don't need translation.
- For MediaWiki:Wikieditor-toolbar-help-content-signaturetimestamp-result/kaa , you've written "June". I think that it can be translated, and I guessed that it's "iyunnıń", but I might be wrong. Please check.
- Please verify all the translations now. I may have made mistakes ;)
- Thank you again for asking! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:10, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, thank you for your quick response!
- Yes, even if little by little, we are trying to localize Karakalpak Wikipedia.
- About the translations:
- 1. Your point is well noted.
- 2. Thank you for your attentively, you are right: I missed the name of month. But let me correct: can you input "-iyun" instead of "iyunnıń"? Because we use "-iyun" when the date ("10" in our case) is before the name of the month (10-iyun) and we use "iyunnıń" when the date is after the name of the month (iyunnıń 10).
- 3. I'm sorry, but I missed another two points also. Can you check please talk pages of positions 18 (MediaWiki:Wikieditor-toolbar-help-content-bolditalic-syntax/kaa) and 19 (MediaWiki:Wikieditor-toolbar-help-content-bolditalic-result/kaa) and help with the small corrections?
- All others look like OK, now we will wait for some time until these translations start to appear in our WikiEditor tables, then we will see.
- Thank you in advance. - Ajiniyaz Nurniyazov (talk) 03:43, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
- I fixed those three. Can you please check again? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
- Now it seems OK. Thank you. Ajiniyaz Nurniyazov (talk) 10:35, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
- I fixed those three. Can you please check again? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Language names in “Active languages” page
I’m trying to track down a mistranslation (in languages using the zh-hant script, 裡 in a transliterated name is always an error) but search isn’t able to find it, and uselang=qqx is of no help. I wonder if anyone knows where these “supportedlanguages-portallink” strings (e.g., “supportedlanguages-portallink: smn, Inari Sami, anarâškielâ”) are coming from. Thanks! Al12si (talk) 22:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
- I suggest to try searching for it using https://codesearch.wmcloud.org/search/ once it is back up again. Nike (talk) 09:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Al12si: Those language names come from the CLDR extension: [2]. If a name is incorrect, it is best to try to fix it in CLDR, but since that can take a while, we can also override it with a LocalNames file in the same extension. See e.g. [3], which defines Norwegian names for many language codes that aren't covered in CLDR (in Norwegian). Definitions in a LocalNames file override the ones from the CldrNames files. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 00:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)