Support/Archive/2024/06
This is an archive page for the Support page. Do not post new threads here, they will likely not be read. If you wish to continue an archived discussion, start a new thread on the Support page and include a link to the archived discussion.Could an admin please delete Phabricator:arcanist-core-0195007b017e9f88/io. It seems to be a duplicate of the English source, not a translation. Thanks. Pppery (talk) 18:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Why did FuzzyBot undo my edits?
On the 23rd of May, FuzzyBot undid all my corrections to the Dutch translation of the SmartComments extension (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and many more).
Why did it do this, and how can we stop it from doing this again? McDutchie (discussion) 20:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It did it because https://github.com/ArchiXL/SmartComments/commit/2d2866ce4e555a2d5888022d2e626503d4f151c5 happened. There's a lengthy discussion below that commit, the conclusion of which is that the developers of the extension think Dutch is the source language and shouldn't be changed, whereas translatewiki thinks English is the source language. Pppery (talk) 20:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Permission
My permission have been revoked by complaints from several users. But I want re get the permission. How to do?
Thank you! Googology (talk) 23:32, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Wm-license-self merge
Way back in 2017 I added wm-license-self ("I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following {{PLURAL:$1|license|licenses}}:") and wm-license-self-with-author ("$1, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publishes it under the following {{PLURAL:$2|license|licenses}}:") for phab:T40576, intending to replace wm-license-self-one-license ("I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license:"), wm-license-self-multiple-licenses ("I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following licenses:"), wm-license-self-one-license-with-author ("$1, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publishes it under the following license:"), and wm-license-self-multiple-licenses-with-author ("$1, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publishes it under the following licenses:"). Unfortunately the translations were never merged, and to this day the first set of messages is translated in 50 (!) languages more than the second set. What would the process be for migrating these over so that the deprecation of the first set of messages can finally be completed? Pppery (talk) 02:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
New feature for (in)formal language variants
Some languages have formal or informal variants. Currently there is German, Spanish and Hungarian formal variants and informal variant for Dutch.
The problem with these variants has been that to avoid unnecessary work, we have discouraged making translations which are equal to their fallback language. This makes it hard to keep track where (in)formal version is missing.
A new feature has been released, which allows defining both formal and informal variants inline in one translation. For example:
(es) ¿{{#FORMAL:Estás|Está}} {{GENDER:$1|seguro|segura}}?
This replaces two messages used previously:
(es) ¿Estás {{GENDER:$1|seguro|segura}}?
(es-formal) ¿Está {{GENDER:$1|seguro|segura}}?
I'm inviting translators of these languages to try this new feature out and give feedback. Ideally we would migrate all existing in(formal) translations to this format and disable direct translation in the language (in)formal variant codes.
Note: This feature only works with MediaWiki! Nike (talk) 06:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- The problem I always have is that it's hard to find which messages need changing, because I can't distinguish messages that don't need fixing from ones which haven't yet been fixed. Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't seem to change that, it only changes where the fixed message is stored. It's also not clear to me in the interface whether the message currently being edited will support this syntax or not. - Nikki (talk) 11:36, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Nikki: This should eliminate the need to translate into xx-(in)formal entirely, and keep all translations in the main language code's translations. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- With the idea that all new translations can use this method. Need to think about something about merging existing translations. Nike (talk) 17:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I know. My point is that the separate translations aren't the problem for me. The problem is finding the messages that should be different.
- For example, if I go to Special:Translate for
de-formaland try to find which of the 46,000+ messages should have a different translation, how do I do that? I might be able to find some by searching for words like "you", but what about imperative forms of verbs or informal vocabulary? I would really need to check all of the messages. - Now if I go to Special:Translate for
deand try to find which of the 48,000+ messages should have multiple formality levels, how do I do that? It's exactly the same problem. - How can we keep track of which messages have already been checked? (e.g. I already checked "Sunday", but just like I can't say it doesn't need a
de-formaltranslation, I also can't say it doesn't need multiple formality levels) - How can we detect new translations where people haven't used it when they should have? (which will surely happen)
- How will new users discover and remember to use this syntax?
- - Nikki (talk) 11:41, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Nikki: This should eliminate the need to translate into xx-(in)formal entirely, and keep all translations in the main language code's translations. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- How would I go about migrating nl-informal translations to nl in an efficient way? I can find no easy way of opening the corresponding nl translation given an nl-informal one. – McDutchie (discussion) 21:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I have created the following pages to list messages to be migrated. It's not ideal but might be slightly easier than trying to use Special:Translate:
- Nike (talk) 10:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- First ten done for nl, only 1484 to go... :-)
- Now, next question: how do I activate the formal tense in the UI so I can test it? I cannot find an option in the preferences. McDutchie (discussion) 16:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's in the language selector. There is no separate preference for it. Nike (talk) 16:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- On my end, the language selector has no effect. Both for “Nederlands” and “Nederlands (informeel)”, the informal form is shown. McDutchie (discussion) 17:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- We deploy new translations usually once a week on Wednesdays. We don't use translations directly from the MediaWiki namespace (other than some exceptions) as MediaWiki would choke on such a high number of translations. Nike (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not what I'm talking about. What I mean is: when I visit a translated message, like MediaWiki:Contactpage-emailsenttext-accountvanishapps/nl or MediaWiki:Contactpage-blocked-message-accountvanishapps/nl, then only the informal variant shows. Which is inconsistent with previous practice where nl was formal and nl-informal was informal. I've been following your example and using {{#FORMAL:informal version|formal version}}. So, with the new translations, nl shows informal language, but how do I choose formal? There is no nl-formal variant to choose. How do I verify that the #FORMAL tags I've been inserting are correct and work correctly? McDutchie (discussion) 16:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- The syntax for Dutch has been configured as formal because `nl-informal` is the variant. Nike (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- So does that mean we have to use <nowiki>{{#FORMAL:formal text|informal text}}</nowiki> for Dutch? McDutchie (discussion) 15:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oops looks some words dropped out from my reply, but you got it right. I've made "primary" variant to be the first param and the secondary variant to be second parameter. Does that make sense? Nike (talk) 15:05, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but it's confusing, because it's the other way around from de and es – so I've been doing it wrong.
- Having formal as the default really doesn't make sense for Dutch anyway, as formal language is very much on the way out – even banks now address their customers in the informal tense. So can we switch those around so that we have nl (informal) and nl-formal, as in German and Spanish? McDutchie (discussion) 10:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oops looks some words dropped out from my reply, but you got it right. I've made "primary" variant to be the first param and the secondary variant to be second parameter. Does that make sense? Nike (talk) 15:05, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- So does that mean we have to use <nowiki>{{#FORMAL:formal text|informal text}}</nowiki> for Dutch? McDutchie (discussion) 15:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- The syntax for Dutch has been configured as formal because `nl-informal` is the variant. Nike (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- That's not what I'm talking about. What I mean is: when I visit a translated message, like MediaWiki:Contactpage-emailsenttext-accountvanishapps/nl or MediaWiki:Contactpage-blocked-message-accountvanishapps/nl, then only the informal variant shows. Which is inconsistent with previous practice where nl was formal and nl-informal was informal. I've been following your example and using {{#FORMAL:informal version|formal version}}. So, with the new translations, nl shows informal language, but how do I choose formal? There is no nl-formal variant to choose. How do I verify that the #FORMAL tags I've been inserting are correct and work correctly? McDutchie (discussion) 16:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- We deploy new translations usually once a week on Wednesdays. We don't use translations directly from the MediaWiki namespace (other than some exceptions) as MediaWiki would choke on such a high number of translations. Nike (talk) 19:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- On my end, the language selector has no effect. Both for “Nederlands” and “Nederlands (informeel)”, the informal form is shown. McDutchie (discussion) 17:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's in the language selector. There is no separate preference for it. Nike (talk) 16:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, is this feature available only for aforementioned three languages, or can it be used for other languages, like Turkish? Joseph (talk) 11:30, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- The mechanism is generic, but it must be set up separately for any language that wants to use it. Nike (talk) 11:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. Joseph (talk) 19:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- The mechanism is generic, but it must be set up separately for any language that wants to use it. Nike (talk) 11:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Nice! I’ve reformatted User:Nike/hu-formal to allow adding extra information in a more easy-to-understand way, and also added extra information: tagged the almost 80% of messages that could be deleted right away, without any migration. However, I have some questions/concerns:
- Will this magic word work as expected in all cases? I’m mainly thinking about JavaScript usage (with or without jQuery.i18n),
{{int:}}and using site language rather than UI language (the site language can also be formal or informal). I’ve also tagged some Babel messages, which likely need to remain as they are. - What if all messages get deleted and thus
hu-formaldoesn’t reach the export threshold anymore?
- Will this magic word work as expected in all cases? I’m mainly thinking about JavaScript usage (with or without jQuery.i18n),
- Tacsipacsi (talk) 18:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oh no, I didn't think of JavaScript at all. We should add support there too. It should work everywhere else (except for really plain-text messages)
- As far as I remember, hu-formal is always exported regardless of the thresholds. Nike (talk) 15:48, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Nike: I’ve now tested it by creating
MediaWiki:Testin my local test wiki (whose content language is set tohu) with the content{{#FORMAL:A te tesztüzeneted|Az Ön tesztüzenete}}, and using it in several ways:- From PHP: – these work as expected (the first one depends on the
$ctx->msg('test')->text(); $ctx->msg('test')->inContentLanguage()->text(); $ctx->msg('test')->inLanguage('hu')->text(); $ctx->msg('test')->inLanguage('hu-formal')->text();
uselangURL parameter, the second and third return informal, the third one returns formal). - From wikitext:
{{int:test}} {{MediaWiki:test}}transcluded on one page with default (hu) page language and on one page withhu-formalpage language – both return the form based on the page language, even though{{int:...}}should follow the UI language. This is wrong, but isn’t easy to fix, since the actual wikitext parsing probably happens in the context of the page, not in the context of the message. Both to fix this and to fix JS without jQuery.i18n, I think some kind of load-time preprocessing is necessary (maybe a magic word is not the best syntax for that).
- From PHP:
- —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Nike: I’ve now tested it by creating
- @Nike Who is stupid enough to write such a function? There is already a separate formal version! And if one would change everything, I don't even want to think about it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justman10000 (talk • contributions) 14:19, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- That would be me. I warn you that calling people stupid is not acceptable here. Nike (talk) 13:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm definitely NOT correcting every translation manually just because one think it would be clever to include a formal/informal function! Especially when one considers that a separate language code already exists for this! Justman10000 (talk) 08:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- Then don’t do it. As a volunteer, you’re free to do it or not do it. On the long term, if this works out, it’ll reduce the maintenance cost, even though the transition does indeed take quite some work. (On a related note, calling staff members stupid definitely doesn’t help you getting staff access.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:59, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'm definitely NOT correcting every translation manually just because one think it would be clever to include a formal/informal function! Especially when one considers that a separate language code already exists for this! Justman10000 (talk) 08:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- That would be me. I warn you that calling people stupid is not acceptable here. Nike (talk) 13:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Please delete test pages
Please delete 首页 and 沙盒, which is created solely for testing purposes. Diskdance (talk) 08:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Translation rights
It seems like Interslavic has been activated by now [1]. Can I request translation rights for both isv-latn and isv-cyrl? Or would it be possible to import the Mediawiki messages from another wiki? Thanks, IJzeren Jan (talk) 20:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- @IJzeren Jan: I have given you translator rights now. Normally that happens as part of the account registration process, but your account is older (2012) than that system, so it didn't happen automatically. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:51, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Translated in wrong language ?
Hello all, An user reported to me that our project's pnb translations (Punjabi) are in fact ur/urd (Urdu).
- How to verify this declaration ?
- If true, how to proceed ?
Yug (talk) 11:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Done On Github, I renamed the file from pnb.json to ur.json. Hope it will do. Yug (talk) 13:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- This caused those translations to be duplicated under Urdu. Nike (talk) 13:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Nike, how should we do to delete the pnb. I request deletion of all the wiki page for pnb and remove the pnb.json from github, right ? Yug (talk) 12:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hello User:Jon Harald Søby,
- Thank you for the quick deletions you just made.
- As you saw I requested to delete the whole series of erroneous translations Wikimedia:Signit-*/pnb. It fails for few pages due to `$1` in the wikicode. The few elements remaining to delete are visible here . Could you help delete these last two ? Yug (talk) 12:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- Nike, how should we do to delete the pnb. I request deletion of all the wiki page for pnb and remove the pnb.json from github, right ? Yug (talk) 12:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
- This caused those translations to be duplicated under Urdu. Nike (talk) 13:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- User:Jon Harald Søby hello, my apologize for asking again. Due to `$1` in the wiki code I was unable to edit the following pages for a while to add {delete} template. I only was successful today. Could you directly delete the following erroneous wikipages ?
- Meanwhile, I cleaned up the Github repository here.Yug (talk) 08:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
- cc User:Raymond, in case you pass by. Yug (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Yug: Sorry, I didn't notice the ping until now. (Ping only gives a notification if the @mention and a new signature is added in the same edit.) The messages were already deleted – you found the solution, but in case anyone else is reading this and wondering how to do it, the solution is to include the $1 in the text while adding the
{{delete}}template. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)- No problem, It's part of the wiki / volunteer way. Thanks to you both for all the support to the community :) Yug (talk) 13:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Yug: Sorry, I didn't notice the ping until now. (Ping only gives a notification if the @mention and a new signature is added in the same edit.) The messages were already deleted – you found the solution, but in case anyone else is reading this and wondering how to do it, the solution is to include the $1 in the text while adding the
Change language name for Tai Nuea language (tdd)
Request to change ᥖᥭᥰᥖᥬᥳᥑᥨᥒᥰ to ᥖᥭᥰ ᥖᥬᥲ ᥑᥨᥒᥰ this request is requested by the native language expert user AeyTaiNuea, thanks.--𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀 07:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- OK, but why don't they ask themself? :) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 01:15, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, most ethnic groups in Burma and China don't know about wikis, and very few people are interested, but some of the people who came to this wiki are only some who came because of my invitation. I still have to work hard to get them to understand the wiki, but I explained the wiki to some people, but some were not interested because they were not getting any money. I am trying my best to contribute to the wiki in many other languages including Pa'O, currently, I am the only person writing a dictionary translated into more than a thousand languages in Mon Wiktionary, my main goal is to preserve Burma's ethnic languages on the wiki so they don't disappear, thanks. 𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀 11:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- @AeyTaiNuea has confirmed it, so I'll do it soon. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, most ethnic groups in Burma and China don't know about wikis, and very few people are interested, but some of the people who came to this wiki are only some who came because of my invitation. I still have to work hard to get them to understand the wiki, but I explained the wiki to some people, but some were not interested because they were not getting any money. I am trying my best to contribute to the wiki in many other languages including Pa'O, currently, I am the only person writing a dictionary translated into more than a thousand languages in Mon Wiktionary, my main goal is to preserve Burma's ethnic languages on the wiki so they don't disappear, thanks. 𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀 11:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Translatewiki support for other i18n formats ?
- See also bash script and github workflow to convert from i18n formats
Hello Translatewiki team
Various i18n formats exist. From what I know Wikimedia Banana.i18n, Translatewiki.net/Translatewiki github both follow a same convention. I also know of Browser.i18n file format.
| i18n actors | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| banana.i18n | translatewiki.net | browser.i18n | |
| Documentation | source | source ? | source |
| Typical filepath | i18n/en.json |
i18n/en.json |
_locales/en/messages.json
|
Does Translatewiki already support alternative i18n formats or is willing to walk this road ?
Where can I find documentation for which i18n formats are supported by Translatewiki.net and its github bot ? Yug (talk) 10:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- cc Nike, User:Siebrand, User:Raymond. Yug (talk) 13:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:Translate/Group_configuration#FILES gives a hint. Nike (talk) 14:00, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Nike: to be honest I did not understand the link you shared, it may be too technical for me.
- On my side I found a solution. I used a `Jq` command to convert from i18n json format to _locales/ json format, this is run by a github action periodically or at every push to my repository. It works.
- [bash script and github workflow (the code has involved a bit since)
- Our Github action
- Sharing with you since you will stay on this project for a while and may later suggest this avenue to other people. Yug (talk) 08:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- Build step sounds like a good solution. Nike (talk) 10:46, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Can we prevent translators changing existing important messages on their own?
Hello,
as happened multiple times in the Chinese language, there have been users changing existing MediaWiki core messages without a consensus, causing the interface to "unpredictably" change. This has caused significant confusion and even trust problems between the downstream community and translatewiki.
On platforms like Crowdin and Transifex, when a reviewer marks a translation as "reviewed", it can not be edited by ordinary translators without consensuses. Can we also try to introduce this behavior, to make the translation "more stable"? Thank you. Diskdance (talk) 03:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Pink warning `mw-sp-translate-fuzz` ?
Hello Admins (or experienced users).
I see my translations in Wikimedia:Signit-si-panel-videos-gallery-attribution show a pink overlay. What is the meaning of it ? Is it critical ? Inpecting the code shows tr class="mw-sp-translate-fuzzy". Yug (talk) 13:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Yug: It means that the pink messages are fuzzy, i.e. not updated to the current version of the original (English) message. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:56, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oh... Since they arrived via Github they need Translatewiki's human review to be « Confirmed ». Thank !
- PS: please note `fuzzy` is JARGON for non-English native I believe. Google definition don't apply clearly to this context. You may prefer something more explicit like `to-review` or alternative. Yug (talk) 14:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- We call it outdated in the UI, but the internal term fuzzy easily crops up while we are talking. Nike (talk) 05:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, fuzzy doesn’t necessarily mean outdated: it may have syntax errors that have been flagged automatically, or quality issues flagged manually (by prepending
!!FUZZY!!to the text), like a half-translated message. Maybe it’s time to change the UI wording to something more generic, e.g. “problematic” or “needs attention”. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 21:30, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, fuzzy doesn’t necessarily mean outdated: it may have syntax errors that have been flagged automatically, or quality issues flagged manually (by prepending
- We call it outdated in the UI, but the internal term fuzzy easily crops up while we are talking. Nike (talk) 05:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Rename request
Please rename my username from Ebraminio to Ebrahim. Thanks ebraminiotalk 18:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
About changing my username
AeyTaiNuea to Dai Meng Mao Long AeyTaiNuea (talk) 11:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Proposal: change nl to informal tense, get rid of nl-informal variant
Reference: the thread New feature for (in)formal language variants.
The new {{#FORMAL:formal text|informal text}} magic word makes translations unwieldy and is too much like hard work. I gave it a try for a while, and though the idea is neat, I've concluded that I'm really not prepared to bother with it. Life is too short.
Also, the the formal mode of address in Dutch is on the way to becoming archaic. I may be one of those dinosaurs that still appreciates being addressed formally, but I'm a dying breed. Even banks now address their customers informally; this changed sometime in the last decade and a half. I think collaborative projects like MediaWiki and OpenStreetMap should probably have changed to informal sometime before banks did. :-)
There are other problems as well. The MediaWiki people proofreading the donation interface ignore the existing policy and insist that it always be informal for nl, and periodically change our formal mode translations to informal. For the SmartComments MediaWiki extension, nl is apparently the source language (!) and uses the informal, and any changes are reverted (see Why did FuzzyBot undo my edits?). This creates confusion and inconsistency. There are also some Dutch translators who simply don't know (or forget) that nl is supposed to use the formal, so they translate in the informal.
One way to fix this cleanly would be to switch the formal and informal variants around and have an informal nl translation with an nl-formal variant. But I think it's just not worth doing in this day and age.
So I propose that we:
- Move all current nl-informal translations to their corresponding nl ones, overwriting the latter. (Hopefully this can be automated somehow!)
- Find and change over the remaining formal mode translations.
- Get rid of the nl-informal variant.
Dutch translators, what say you? McDutchie (discussion) 14:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Support! Formal Dutch is outdated and becoming more and more old Dutch. In many nl-messages already the informal "je" is used.
- I do not know the quality of the nl-informal texts. One option is to override the nl- messages with the nl-informal ones. This may result in less quality and outdated system messages. So I am also fine with checking the Dutch system messages and chage it where needed. Just keep in mind that not only "u" and "uw" needs to be changed, also sometimes the verb and some derivates from "u". But yes, I think this. change is a very good idea! Romaine (talk) 15:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, it goes further than that sometimes – there are entire turns of phrase that you would only use in either formal or informal mode of address (here is an example from when I was testing the new tag). But I have been occasionally proofreading and maintaining the existing nl-informal translations, so I think it should be easy enough to ensure they are all up to date before (and if) the big change happens. – McDutchie (discussion) 16:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Just because society is moving towards informal language without formal language, doesn't mean we should follow. We're not sheep. I'm not entirely against it, but not in all circumstances. In Wikipedia's case, I think formal makes more sense because of its nature. So I'm voting against moving everything to nl-informal. Vistaus (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- We are not sheep, but Wikipedia has the rule to follow that what is common within society regarding language. If the spelling changes, we follow that. If certain language is considered archaic, we don't use it. And so on.
- The language used in system messages should reflect the common language used in society, as the purpose of the texts is to properly inform the public. The use of outdated language does not contribute to properly informing the public and can result in that system messages aren't taken seriously. Only if there is a very good reason for deviating from what is common, a different text can be used. There is no proper reason provided for the use of the outdated formal language. Romaine (talk) 14:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't support this, but given the existing issues, I won't bother resisting. Ideally, I'd like to see an nl-formal, like de-formal, but the reality is that it just ends up being a forgotten variant left to rot. —Mainframe98 talk 17:17, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that the informal form should be preferred! But instead of copying all the nl-informal translations over the nl translations, can't we use a script or bot to merge the translations (using the new #FORMAL magic keyword)? It wouldn't be hard to code something like that. This should not be done manually. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contributions) 17:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- If you know a script or bot that is able to merge the translations, I am happy to have a look at it. Please realise that it is not just a change of "u" into "je", also the verb and other parts of the sentences can need a change. With manual labour there is a huge risk of errors, with a fully automatic conversion there is a huge risk of importing outdated nl-informat texts or it can miss certain outdated formal language. Therefore I think the best way to make this conversion is a semi-automatic one, with a human eye that checks if the fix of outdated language has been implemented properly. I am used to do this kind of work and I am willing to do this here too. I then only need to have a tool/bot that I can use. If I can use AutoWikiBrowser, I can program the tool to take the various variables into account. Romaine (talk) 14:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Change in mdf.wiki main page translation
This is the only correct option as per recent texts in "Moksha" journal in Moksha language 2023-2024, e.g. Numulunj pilgae (talk) 07:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Numulunj pilgae: What do you mean by "this"? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 13:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby I meant sometimes we give up to newer options but still we should stick to existing spelling and grammar standards. So I've made changes. Numulunj pilgae (talk) 19:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- You haven't specified what "this" is - what the translation should be changed to. Translatewiki admins (of which I'm not) can probably see it from your abuse log, though. Pppery (talk) 20:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby I meant sometimes we give up to newer options but still we should stick to existing spelling and grammar standards. So I've made changes. Numulunj pilgae (talk) 19:21, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- To make sure: Do you want to change "Пряфкс лопась" and "Пряфкслопа" to "Пря лопа"? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Requesting a minor change to the MediaWiki:Parser-template-loop-warning original message
Could we please change [[$1]] to [[:$1]]? A template loop on a file or category page does not display the message correctly without a colon. Piano1forte2 (talk) 06:40, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Can you please report this as a task in Phabricator? The idea makes sense to me and I often make simple changes in English messages, but since it's the parser, this may have complications that I'm not thinking of, so the parser experts should take another look. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Where and how exactly do I do this? Apologies, I'm still quite new to this. Piano1forte2 (talk) 13:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Add project to translatewiki
I created a task (phab:T368810) on Phabricator to add my project (Feverfew) to translatewiki following this guide: Translating:New project. Is there anything else I need to do? Thanks. Plantaest (talk) 07:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Request for Luvale and Chitonga language to be added
I write to request for the inclusion of Luvale and Chitonga Languages in translatewiki.net. We have a team of people that will start to translate in those languages soon. The ISO 639-3 for Chitonga Language is: "toi", and for Luvale the ISO 639-3 code is "lue" I will appreciate if this request is favorably considered. Icem4k (talk) 00:34, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- I'll do it, thanks for the request. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Task for tracking: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T368856 Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:42, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- Done This is now enabled! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:46, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- Task for tracking: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T368856 Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:42, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Nothing to translate?
The statistics say there are 2980 message left to translate for MediaWiki in Dutch, yet the translation interface claims there is nothing to translate. This has been going on for a few days now. What gives? McDutchie (discussion) 22:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- I noticed it on June 28, too.
- It happens consistently with languages with high rate of translation, like he, tr, de, nl.
- Curiously, it doesn't happen with fr, even though its rate of translation is higher than that of de and nl.
- It doesn't seem to happen with languages with lower rate of translation, like nzi, za, ka.
- For now, I don't have deeper analysis, just these observations.
- Perhaps @Abijeet Patro has an idea? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Should be fixed now. Nike (talk) 07:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- Confirmed, thanks. Out of curiosity, what went wrong? McDutchie (discussion) 12:36, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- It was a regression from refactoring. We added support for adding message bundles to aggregate groups but accidentally caused aggregate groups stop processing messages after a certain types of subgroups were encountered. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T368844 Nike (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- Confirmed, thanks. Out of curiosity, what went wrong? McDutchie (discussion) 12:36, 30 June 2024 (UTC)