Support/Archive/2023/09

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Request for Add bal-latn

Sometimes Balochi has writed with Latin characters main characters are Balòtin standardizated with Balòrabi by Balochi Academy of Sarbaz

In Balochistan some peoples writes Balochi with romanized alphabets I would like to work on Balòci near Balòrabi

Moshtank (talk) 05:54, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Hinglish as a new language or variant

Hi, I want to ask if Hinglish can in any way be integrated into Translatewiki.net? It is described in detail on its Wikipedia page and is the modern de facto variant of Hindi primarily used on the internet, proven by statistics. It does not make sense to include a language solely in a script that only accounts for 1% of its total use on the internet.

Google has introduced it in the Indian version of their Google Pay app.[src] It has some widely used transliteration conventions like "mein" for "में" and does not translate key feature names, but there is no official transliteration chart published by Google, so it has to be subject to a consensus on here.

I would structure my proposal as follows:

  • Autonym and English name: Hindi (Hinglish)
  • Language code: hi-hinglish
  • Script: Hunterian transliteration scheme for Devanagari

I'd like to know what other native Hindi speakers think of it. Let me know if there is any other place I should post this. ~Saurmandal 10:32 05:02, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Based on the guidelines here, my understanding is that the language is not eligible for inclusion. I don't see ISO code in any relevant resources. Srishakatux (talk) 02:06, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Is it not eligible even with a private -x- language code like Pig Latin (en-x-piglatin) is? ~Saurmandal 22:33 17:03, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Pig Latin is not used as an actual MediaWiki localization language. It's only used internally in MediaWiki code as a pseudo-language for testing purposes. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:21, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Ah alright, then what about hi-latn as its code? Although not used widely, it is an IETF-valid language code. Would it necessarily require interchangeability with hi? ~Saurmandal 17:58 12:28, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Managing languages with variants and multiple scripts is quite cumbersome, so we're trying to avoid it unless it's absolutely necessary. Why is it necessary for Hindi? I realize that it is hard for some people to type in Devanagari, but is it hard to read? Typing in Latin instead of using the native writing system is common in some other languages, for example Arabic, but it is only used informally. MediaWiki localization is not supposed to be super-academic, but it is not too informal eithertir is somewhere in the middle. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:31, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Main Page in Guarani

I've noticed that the current translation of "Main Page" to Guarani, "Ape," might not fully capture the intended meaning. It often conveys "surface" or "cover" instead. I'd like to suggest using "Ñepyrũha" instead, which translates to "start" or "initial." This term better represents the main page as the entry point, aligning more accurately with its purpose. P. S. F. Freitas (talk) 18:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi! If I understand correctly, the MediaWiki software in the Guarani-specific language file lists "mainpage": "Ape" as the default translation. Translations can be locally overwritten. In this case, the edits must be made on MediaWiki:Mainpage on Guarani Wikipedia. Srishakatux (talk) 00:39, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
"Ape" is very old, and it's possible that it was translated incorrectly, and no one ever bothered to fix it.
It can be changed in translatewiki, but because the main page is sensitive and changing its name can break things if it's not done carefully, it's protected and only administrators can change it.
@P. S. F. Freitas, was the proposal to change the name of the main page discussed with other contributors to Guarani wikis? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I've also updated the FAQ about this: FAQ#How can I change the name of the Main page in my wiki? @Srishakatux, FYI. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your messages. I will discuss this matter with @Hugo.arg, the only other active contributor to the Guarani Wikipedia that I know, and seek his input on changing the main page name.
I must mention that there is currently a problem with the Wikimedia Commons main page as well, as it also uses "Ape." This leads to a page about "Gibbons and Great apes" instead of the Guarani main page. P. S. F. Freitas (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
@Hugo.arg's user page says that he doesn't know Guaraní ("gn-0") and only provides technical help, so you should also try to consult with other people :) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Request for Add Balochi language

Hi, I would like to add Balochi as a language here. Information:

Balochi is a written language with Balochi Standard Alphabets and most of Baloch using Main Balochis for writing and they know Balochi as one language and macrolanguage is just using for speakings.

its will be great if Balochi language to be add as a big language in wikimedia projects.

Thanks. Moshtank (talk) 05:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Moshtank: Hello! According to iso639-3:bal, it is a macrolanguage, and we typically don't enable translations into macrolanguages in translatewiki (or Wikipedia editions of them in Wikimedia). The macrolanguage is said to consist of three individual languages: Southern Balochi (bcc), Western Balochi (bgn) and Eastern Balochi (bgp). The first two of these are already enabled for translation here in translatewiki, and all three have existing projects in the Wikimedia Incubator: Wp/bcc, Wp/bgn and Wp/bgp.
So I would suggest translating into one of the individual languages instead. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 10:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Balochi is not a macrolanguage and all of Balochi writers using Balochi as one language, and we dont using southern,eastern and northern Balochi.
I contact with Christian galinski Administration of ISO 639 (SIL) for set a ISO 639 code for Balochi language he answered me that use ISO 639-1 code(bal) for develope Balochi language now here you and Wiki administration dosn't let us for translating Balochi
Actually we are going unhope and we cant grow up Balochi as like as
We just can work on Main Balochi if you let us if not, Good bye wiki for eveytime.
Moshtank (talk) 06:08, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
Hi @Moshtank!
This was discussed once here: Thread:User_talk:Nemo_bis/Balochi_language(_بلوچی_).
In that conversation, @Baloch Afghanistan says that the dialects are different.
Are they really different in writing? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
Yes ofcourse its true that dialect are different but just in speaking, like American English is different than Indian English, but all of the Balochi writers use just main Balochi that spoken now at Sarbaz and Lashar zones of Balochistan, Now I as a member of a Language Academy and also a writer must write to main Balochi not Balochi dialects.
Moshtank (talk) 14:45, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply, and for your patience and understanding. I am just trying to make sure that language configuration is done in the best possible way for the people who speak, read, and write it.
Please take a look at these links:
Do they look like correct Balochi to you? Do you think that they are all written in the same language? Is any of them perhaps more similar to the Balochi as you know it?
Thanks! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:56, 3 August 2023 (UTC) @Amir E. Aharoni Thanks for reply me.
@Amir E. Aharoni
Thanks for reply me.
I know this dialects and actually I am a Baloch and my native and mother language is Balochi also I am a writer of Balochi language
I know that Balochi for writing is one, here no have a Balochi writer that write with Southern, Eastern or Western
All of writer writes their text and Book also articel in Main Balochi
Also I have contacting with SIL and ISO639 standard code for give an ISO639 ( tow letter like en ) code for Balochi but they telling me use ISO639-2 code for translating and using in Wikipedia but here you and your co-worker dosn't allow me.
Now actually I don't know what i should do.
Tell me a thing if Wikimedia can't add Balochi to translation so we will leave here and go to another platform for translating in Balochi.
Moshtank (talk) 13:41, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
I understand, but have you looked at the links? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:01, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I looked link and I know @Baloch Afghanistan is says true.
He is my friend.
In Balochistan we say to them gàlwàr(dialects) and Balochi have many dialects like,Bashkardi, Koroshi, Jatui, Sarhadi, Makorani, Zahedani, and more.
Now I saying this all dialects are just for speaking and not Writing for writing all of Baloch writers use Main Balochi.
And out activities are just for Main Balochi not Southern, Western and Eastern.
Also southern Balochi have some other dialects that are difference in songs.
Its my request that we can work just on Main Balochi not Southern and others.
And i want say if can you add Balochi we can to translate here if we will leave here and tries other platforms.
Moshtank (talk) 07:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
OK, so here's what I'm asking: are all these links written the same way in which you would write the common Balochi, or are they different? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello dear Amir E. Aharoni, I am Ibrahim from Afghanistan and I am in close contact with the Baloch people of Iran and Pakistan.
First of all, in your answer, I must say: Yes! All these links written are the same way to common Balochi.
And according to Moshtank and other friends, we have 3 dialects in the Balochi language, but our writing and our common root is the same Balochi language, and we call our language "بلوچی - ‌Baluchi" with code {bal}. Our effort is to work on a single & unified "Baluchi" language project and we try to integrate other sub-projects in this single project (bal - Baluchi).
If we want to scale Balochi based on dialect and call him {macrolanguage}, Pashto language should also be macrolanguage because Eastern, Paktia and Kandahari dialects in Afghanistan have many differences, but their written language is Pashto (ps).
Thank you for your great understanding.
И, кстати, мы познакомились в Москве в 2017 году на викиконференсии.

Ibrahim khashrowdi (talk) 12:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh great, I remember you, Ibrahim! I'll consult with my colleagues about this. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
@Amire80
Tell me Where is our problem?
We must to give an ISO639 code for Balochi wikipedia or you will add bal as ISO639-2 code for translation?
Moshtank (talk) 04:05, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
@Ibrahim khashrowdi سلام براھݔم جان وشھتئ!
باز منتوار چہ شمئی سرپدی‌ئان! Moshtank (talk) 04:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Thanks dear @Amire80 for your support!
FYI, Balochi language in (Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran) and other places is known as single Balochi language and naturally each language has different dialects like our language. For example; Persian or Farsi: Sistani dialect in Nimroz-Afghanistan and Baluchistan of Iran, may not be understood by all Iranian or Afghan people, or other accents of Persian.
Balochi language has an academy in Pakistan, has published many books in Baluchi language, that are understandable for all Baloch people& "Balochi language" in Afghanistan it also has a section in the Academy of Sciences of Afghanistan and also the Ministry of Education of Afghanistan, known Balochi as the third national language, there are educational textbooks in Balochi language from the first to the ninth grade, which should be taught in schools in the Baloch areas.
There are broadcasts in Balochi language on Afghan TV and Radio. Our dialect in Afghanistan is Rakhshani Balochi or Western Balochi, but other Balochs understand what we say and we also understand them.
Therefore, we want to work on a single project and work more in our language. And Wikipedia and other institutions should help us as they have supported other languages.
I think that we need the new (ISO 639-1, ISO 639-2) code for Balochi language and it should be "BL" code, which should assigned to the single Balochi language.
@Moshtank!

سلام براس زبری پخیری؟ براس مشما باید په بلوچی خاطرا په ایزو ISO 639-2 یا ISO 639-1 کدی خاطرا به ایدااقدام کنن و په ای خاطرا فکر کنین گیهتیرنت که شه یک پروفیسور یا اکادمی زبان کمک گیرن.

Ibrahim khashrowdi (talk) 16:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
باز وش براھݔم جان من ھما Sulatnselim Baloch ھستون
شمئی ھال وش اِنت شما جاندراہ اِت؟
من باز گون ISO639 ءِ کارمستران کولہ ءُ پئیگام کورتگ
کہ باید انت بلۏچی زبانا ھن یک ISO 639-1 ء
کود بہ بیت من باز ایمیل جتگ چہ مئی زبانی اکئیدمی نݔمگا(بلۏچی زبانءِ ربیدجاہ یا ھما Balochi Academy Sarbaz )
بلئ ھنو اشان گُش اَنت کہ ھنو باز زلوری نہ اِنت کہ بلۏچی ھن یک کدے داشتہ بیت پچے کہ ھنو ھر جاہ شہ ایزور ۶۳۹-۳ کارزور اَنت
ھنو من پدا کریستین گالینسکیءِ واستا ایمیل جتگ بلہ ھنگت جوابی نداتگ بارین دݔما چے بیت
لھتے جاہ ھست اِنت کہ تنھا ایزو ۶۳۹-۱ باید بیت دگہ کودان نہ مَنّ اَنت۔
منی واھشت اشی اِنت کہ bc بلۏچی زبانءِ ایزو ۶۳۹-۱ کود بہ بیت۔
ادا اے ویکی پیڈیاءِ کارمستر ھنو مئی زبانش ھنچۏ مئی مردمانءِ ڈؤلا سئ جاگہ کورتگ۔
Moshtank (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Balochi Academy Sarbaz Main Website
Moshtank (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
@Moshtank and @Ibrahim khashrowdi, what I really want to ask is this: If the "bal" code becomes usable, as you are asking, can translations that were made into "bcc" and "bgn" be copied to "bal"? Or will it be something different?
And if a translation exists for both "bcc" and "bgn", which one would you use for "bal"?
For example, there is this English string: "Add new files I upload to my watchlist". Here's how it's translated now:
  • Southern (bcc): نۏکݔن پایلانء ھۏر کنگ مہ منی چارگء لیستا
  • Western (bgn): نوکین فایلانه که من بُرز کورته اون، نی چارگ لیستا تها اضافه به ینت
Which of these is closer to what you would write as translation into code "bal"?
Just for reference, I'll also mention translations into other Indo-Iranian languages:
  • Persian (fa): پرونده‌های جدیدی که بارگذاری می‌کنم به فهرست پیگیری‌ من افزوده شود
  • Pashto (ps): د نویو دوتني اضافه کول چي زما د تعقیب په لړليک کي وي
  • Urdu (ur): میری اپلوڈ کردہ نئی فائلوں کو زیر نظر فہرست میں شامل کریں
Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
سلام و خسته نباشید دوستان، می‌شه بگین مشکل چیه؟ بچه‌ها بالاتر توضیح دادن که شرایط چیه. شاید اگر فارسی بگین من بهتر بتونم منتقل کنم. مرسی Mardetanha talk 02:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
درۏت ءُ درھبات!
@Mardetanha
مشکل ما تجزیه‌ شدن زبان ما به چندین زبان زبان هست که توسط مردم گویش میشوند که تاثیر پذیرفته از دیگر زبان ها هستند در حالی که تمامی نویسندگان بلوچی از یک بلوچی واحد استفاده کرده و میکنند و ما هم به عنوان یکی از گروه های فعال زبان بلوچی میخواهیم روی بلوچی اصلی کار کنیم اما نه این ها اجازه میدهند و نه SIL یک کد مجزای دو حرفی
برای بلوچی در نظر میگیرد
Moshtank (talk) 05:38, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
[bcc] is nearest to Main Balochi because this dialect have a little loan words and I would like to copy [bcc] into [bal] and i told it that we will use [bcc] words till we add new words
and this words[Add new files I upload to my watchlist] translation in bal is '''نۏکݔن پایلے کہ من اݔرءَ گݔجون منی چارگءِ لیستئش ھۏر کن'''
We as Balochi Academy Sarbaz only developing Main Balochi
Moshtank (talk) 05:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
@Amire80 Jan
Balochi its one and copy text were translated in bcc and bgn if both bgn and bcc had translated text I refference copy bcc
And if you want works bcc and bgn set bal native name to[رݔدگݔن بلۏچی] if not set [بلۏچی].
Moshtank (talk) 18:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
@Amire80 What was? we are waitnig for Answer
Moshtank (talk) 15:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
@Moshtank You should translate at BCC code. Its native name is being changed to مکرانی بلۏچی on your request, old name is being deleted. congratulation! Saraiki (talk) 04:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
I will translate because @Amire80 told me translating bcc till wikimedia accept our request to add Main Balochi, and bcc translations will copy to bal
Actually i translating to Main Balochi
And I awaiting for adding Main Balochi while be Our main celebrating time!
@Saraiki
Moshtank (talk) 12:00, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@Amire80 Hi,
bcc and bgn are both dialects of Balochi language, but in academic part bcc uses more than other dialect, although my native language is Balochi - Rakhshani or western dialect (bgn). Ibrahim khashrowdi (talk) 16:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Wm-license-gpl-text/en's "free software"

page:MediaWiki:Wm-license-gpl-text/en
Contents I want to change:free software -> Free software
reason:To clarify the distinction from freeware--Vcvfou698069 (talk) 11:15, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Sp-translate-data-MagicWords/sr-ec, MediaWiki:Sp-translate-data-SpecialPageAliases/sr-ec

I need the content of this pages for reference purposes, just put it in my user space

Regards Milićević (talk) 11:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Done Done
Nike (talk) 12:00, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Southern Kurdish (sdh)

Currently, the aid/support language for Southern Kurdish is Persian. For the following reasons, I'd like Central Kurdish (ckb) to replace the role of Persian: 1. A significant number of Southern Kurds are in Iraq and don't speak Persian and do not benefit from seeing a Persian translation when translating into Southern Kurdish. They have have active news agencies, TV channels and websites that publish and broadcast in the Southern Kurdish dialect of Iraq. 2. Central Kurdish is the closest language to Southern Kurdish for which many items have already been translated and its speakers have managed to create several Wiki projects. 3. Even as of now, Southern Kurdish translators get inspiration from Central Kurdish translations and it's helped us a lot. TerranBoy (talk) 12:30, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@TerranBoy: Hi! Languages can have several fallback languages, as we call them. For Southern Kurdish, the fallback languages are already Central Kurdish and then Persian, in that order. That means that if a message hasn't been translated to Southern Kurdish yet, it will be shown in Central Kurdish, and if it hasn't been translated to Central Kurdish either, it will be shown in Persian (and then in English if there's no Persian translation either).
By default, the assistant languages shown in the Translatewiki interface will be the fallback languages set for that language, so you should be seeing both Central Kurdish and Persian if translations into both languages exist; however, since Persian is a bigger language than Central Kurdish, it is likely that you will see only Persian in many places because a particular message hasn't yet been translated into Central Kurdish. Does that make sense? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 23:04, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
@Jon Harald SøbyI see. But I think there must have been a mistake. The order may be the other way around. I haven't a single Central Kurdish equivalent being shown when translating into Southern Kurdish, even when the same text already has a Central Kurdish. Central Kurdish isn't shown at all. Additionally, for the interface language, I'm using Southern Kurdish and I see 80% Persian. For example, here at https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&group=wikimedia-tools-bookreader&language=ckb&filter=&action=translate , the first item is already translated into Central Kurdish. But it's not shown for Southern Kurdish.
TerranBoy (talk) TerranBoy (talk) 02:23, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
@TerranBoy: OK, thanks for the examples – I can confirm that I also experience the issue.
I found the reason for this error. Instead of the first fallback language being set to ckb, it was set to cbk, a language code that is currently not supported by MediaWiki, and which is wholly unrelated to Southern Kurdish. I have submitted a fix for this problem, which will hopefully be merged and deployed here quickly (within a week, I believe).
If you don't want to wait for this solution to appear here, you can set ckb (and/or any other languages you want) as your personal assistant language in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-translate. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 06:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Thank you so much. The issue is fixed now. TerranBoy (talk) 03:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

OpenStreetMap in Spanish is starting a reversion war

I am part of the OpenStreetMap-OSM community, collaborating on this project for a long time. I am also a Spanish speaker, and I saw a couple of months ago a lot of strings in the OSM website with many issues: lack of concordance (tu vs. usted), missing translations, etc.

I asked the OSM project about how to improve the translations in Spanish, and they redirected here (https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/accepting-users-terms-for-a-spanish-non-english-speaker/102093). I reviewed all strings (more than 2000) to validate that the user experience is the same across the entries. I mean the interaction with the user is "tu" instead of "usted", and always provide a friendly and close dialog.

However, some strings were reverted, and I consulted the OSM community what they think about this user experience (tu vs. usted), confirming me that they also prefer "tu" (https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/4238).

Also, I asked the OSM project maintainers if there were translation guidelines, and they provided me extra feedback to ensure the translation follows some structure (https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/spanish-osm-website-translation-mensajes-en-la-pagina-de-osm-deben-tutear-o-ustear/103509/1)

I have written to many translators here who have perform an invalid change, and most of them have replied me accepting the fact, or giving a valid feedback. However, the user Fitoschido has not replied me any of my messages in his talk page, and he has reverted me several entries. Lastly, he wrote me a message in my talk page (User talk:Angoca).

I don't think this is a way to work on a community way, but he is trying to start a reversion war, because his translation is distant. Angoca (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

@Fitoschido, do you have anything to respond? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 01:35, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
I can read Spanish, but I don't want to get too much into discussions of languages in which I don't write well myself. However, as an administrator, I sometimes have to get involved. For now, I find @Angoca's arguments because they cite multiple community discussions. Unless @Fitoschido cites something else, I'd say that Spanish OpenStreetMap translations should use tu. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Problematic user

Alesaru is a user that has recently started performing translations in Romanian. However, a part of them are of low quality, and at least 2 of them caused site-wide issues at ro.wikipedia.org. We suspect (the local Romanian language Wikipedia community) that this account belongs to a LTA vandal at Romanian language Wikipedia. We are discussing the possible necessity of a mass revert (and I think that also an indefinite block might be necessary). See these 2 discussions: Lipsă spații după virgule în interfață (permalink) and Titlul filei (permalink).

I have considered normal to announce the Translatewiki community about this issue, and I am sorry if this is not the proper place to do this. --NGC 54 (talk) 19:01, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I've removed the translator permission from that account. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Regarding the same user, I need some help with this move. Should it be reverted? Strainu (talk) 12:11, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure why was it created in the old name initially, but the current one looks OK technically. Please check whether the translation is actually correct. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Yup, the translation looks ok. Strainu (talk) 15:20, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Babel-5-n/pi translation FAQ

Can you please allow me to translate the MediaWiki:Babel-5-n/pi using both Hindi Pali text and Mon Pali text? I am a Mon Pali scholar (Mon Pali language dictionary see here and watch the Mon Pali language audio file here), but unfortunately, the Mon Pali language is not well known and does not have a language code, thanks.--𝓓𝓻.𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓸𝓫𝓮𝓼𝓪|𝒯𝒶𝓁𝓀 10:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

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