User talk:Amire80/LiquidThreads

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Hi, I have now submitted quite a few translations, and ask if I could be a translation administrator, administrator or even bureaucrat

You shouldn't ask just me :)

Bring it up on Support, which is the main discussion forum.

Thanks

אני רואה ששינית בעבר ממנהלי ממשק ל-עורכי ממשק זו לא טעות? (שיניתי לפני שראיתי).

שלום,

„מנהלי ממשק” הוא אכן תרגום ישיר יותר מאנגלית, אבל בוויקיפדיה העברית נהוג „עורכי ממשק” מסיבות היסטוריות שאינני זוכר, וזה לא ממש שגוי מבחינה מעשית, אז אין סיבה חזקה לשנות.

שלום אמיר, מה שלומך?
נכנסתי לבטא של Wikifunctions ושמתי לב ש-MediaWiki:Wikilambda-expert-mode-json-label/he
מופיע כ"נוכחי ‎Z עצם" ולא כמו שהוא מופיע בתרגום עצמו. האם כדאי להוסיף תו כיווניות?
(אתה מוזמן לראות את זה ב-קישור לדוגמה) (סליחה על העריכות המרובות, אני מנסה לסדר את העברית)

תודה על הבדיקה. זה בטוח לא דורש תו כיווניות. זה דורש תכנות נכון של כל הדף, שלא יכפה כיוון משמאל לימין

Hello, can you not delete translations that are supposed to be identical to the english string. They are marked as supposed to be like that. There is not reason to do this, pay attention to what you are doing. Yes, this was on the 19. october 2022, but you did not reverse this and it is now november.

There are no mistakes here of not understanding because these were links and links cannot be translated (and nothing to change with the links).

I would like the unnessary translation deletions to be reversed (if possible).

Can you please give an example of a string that shouldn't have been deleted and explain why?

https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Osm:Users.terms.consider_pd_why_url/is (I have already put it back)

And can you please explain why is it useful to have an identical copy of the English link?

This one is still deleted. https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Osm:Users.terms_declined_flash.terms_declined_url/is&action=edit&redlink=1

Just read another post related. Problem solved.

Hello, there is a Latin alphabet used by the Nogay Tatars (Tatars of Romania; Crimean Tatars and Nogay Tatars) in Dobruja which is also official by UDTTMR (Democratic Union of Tatar Turkish Muslims of Romania). There are also books printed with this alphabet. There are using it also in Social Media, Website, YouTube etc. Here are some links:

Website: http://uniuneatatara.ro/en/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/udttmruniuneatatara/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/udttmroficial/?_se_imp=2JlALzFIx93azMr2F

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/UDTTMRUniuneaT%C4%83tar%C4%83

Here is the alphabet showing and explaining by a woman (Noğayşa/Tatarşa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lCsBdQBTs

Here is the alphabet shown from the book ALFABE (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nogai_alphabets): https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1795600770673670&set=ma-_-_-me-_-_-%C5%9Fa-_-_-ta-_-_-qirimtatartiliuyrenemiztatarlar-tatars-%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80-tata

Here is saying that there was a print problem and the letter ğ is written as ǧ: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php/?fbid=1793764244190656

You can also contact with them, you need to look it in the Website there are some possibilities.

Hi, Amir. Javanese language have two writing system which consist of Latin and Javanese script. As of now, only the Latin alphabet is available on Translatewiki. Can you help me to enable jv-java (label: ꦗꦮ)? So we can use it in our project's interface. There is a plenty of article created in Javanese script on jvwiki (jv:Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Multiscript), and now we have jvws, so there would be a lot of pages in Javanese script. Thanks.

I approve that request. In fact many "minority" languages should first develop in Wikisource and Wiktionary, even before trying to create a Wikipedia (even in Incubator): there are lot of historic documents to work with, that would also allow compiling such lexical sources into a Wiktionary with a stabilized orthography for at least a useful subset of these languages, then allowing creation in Wikipedia.

Developping Wikisource for from lexical sources would be useful to develop the core MediaWiki UI, even if this still requires discussions in other related languages and scripts (which can happen in Wikisource, before compiling lists in Wiktionary: Javanese in Latin may be stabilized but still not in the historic script, so even if a Javanese Wikisource in Javanese script is created and realeased early, it will have to be usable using the Latin script for discussions, or possibly as well the Arabic/Betawi script for islamic texts translated from the Arabic language or from Indonesian/Malay, Sundanese, or possibly Chinese). The UI in Javanese script will need lots of tests, and this can be effectively done in the new Javanese Wikisource using both scripts (Latin, and Javanese). As well this will be the proper place to try developing and testing a transliterator (if it's possible) or input method (if existing input methods are insufficient): Wikisource with historic text transcriptions will provide the necessary corpus to work with, and possibly as well will allow testing fonts and text renderers to see if they correctly match the facsimiles transcribed into Wikisource in their native script (and neither translated, nor transliterated): we need fidelity the original texts (of various kinds: prayer boosk, poems, songs, material artworks, commercial or legal acts, old letters and manuscripts, political texts...; and covering various domains of knowledge and communication).

Hello,

I am encountering an issue with PLURAL, as illustrated in this screen capture. I simply don’t see what is wrong with the translation. This happens in multiple places. Can you help ? Thanks.

(Generally, it's better to ask such things at Support, but I don't mind replying here.)

This is a translation of the Android app and not of a MediaWiki component. For technical reasons, translation for Android requires that all possible plural forms are written, even if they are identical.

You probably need to write something like this: {{PLURAL|one=dec'h|two=%d devezh zo|few=%d devezh zo|many=%d devezh zo|%d devezh zo}}.

For reference, the complete plural rules for all languages including Breton appear at https://unicode-org.github.io/cldr-staging/charts/latest/supplemental/language_plural_rules.html .

Thanks.

Hello Mr.Amire, I need your help to change my username in translatewiki, when I started to translate here before I didn't think that the name that I choosed is so big but now I can percept this, can you help to change my username to "Maracajá Teremembé" please?

 Done

Hello I believe you made a mistake on Setswana translatewiki “User page" must be “Tsebe ya modirisi" but I see “Template:Bong:Username Thank you.

I've just fixed a couple of translations that could cause it. Can you please check whether you still see it anywhere?

Hello again yes I can still see it , please switch to Setswana and check at the top left of your user page before “Puisano" you will see something like “:Template:Bong:Amir08", please check and tell me if you can see what I'm talking about. Thank You

Oh, I understand. This is fixed, but you still see the mistaken thing here for purely technical reasons. You'll see that it's fixed in some time. Thanks for your patience.

Thank you very much for helping our Setswana Language.

Hi! Developing a tool that is translated on Translatewiki, I have a bad habit of submitting documentation for messages only after they've reached the site. I've noticed that some of translators, including you, are so fast that they translate the messages within several hours after they are added. Which means that you folks have to translate them without documentation. Sorry for that! I'll try to improve. Meanwhile, I've added the documentation for all Convenient Discussions messages, so you can check with it now if there was something unclear to you.

Всё хорошо, я просто перевожу вещи из моего списка важных проектов каждое утро потому что я чуть-чуть сумасшедший :)

Если вы добавляете документацию Когда-Нибудь, это гораздо лучше, чем Никогда. Если я совсем не могу перевести без документации, буду знать у кого спросить.

Круто :) Но лучше добавлять сразу, потому что я же вижу, что некоторые сообщения переводчики не понимают без комментариев. Означают действие или подпись, слово глагол или существительное, каков контекст и т. п.

Прошу переименовать в мою главную учётную запись.

А зачем вам вообще учётная запись? Если вы не знаете английский язык и бессрочно заблокированы в Википедии, что вы собираетесь тут делать?

Иногда, встречаются грубые ошибки в сообщениях MediaWiki. Примеры: [1] (офлайн пишется с одной ф), вторая уже исправлена.

אי אפשר לשחזר שלוש עריכות. משחזרים את הדף למצב שקדם ללפני העריכות. העריכות עצמן _מבוטלות_. זה שלפני שנים מישהו אידיוט (סליחה על הביטוי) תרגם את rollback ("גלגול") ל"שחזור" לא הופך את האיוולת לנכונה. ראה לדוגמה את הודעת המערכת "שוחזר מעריכות של AAA לעריכה האחרונה של BBB". _הדף (או הגרסה הישנה) _ שוחזר _מ_העריכות של מישהו. העריכות עצמן – בוטלו. אבל שוב דחוף לך לבטל בלי למצוא פתרון נכון יותר, רק כי "ככה היה". זה קידוש של הגרסה היציבה במקום שהוא טעות ברורה. רשמתי לפניי.

תפסיק לערוך את זה בלי שום דיון. אם אתה רוצה, שאל עוד אנשים. אתה זה לא מספיק. אני לא רואה עם זה שום בעיה, ויש עוד המון אנשים שמדברים עברית ושהשתמשו בתוכנה הזאת, ולא התלוננו.

ובכל מקרה, בפעם הבאה שתקרא פה למישהו, לא משנה למי, במילים כאלה, תיחסם בלי אזהרה נוספת.

למה זה מפריע לך? יש לך התנגדות ממשית לשינוי הזה? מה מציק לך כשאתה רואה עריכה שלי? אם ההתנגדות שלך היא רק "קיים דיון" או "ככה זה היה" בלי להסביר למה הניסוח _שלך_ נכון או עדיף, ההתנגדות שלך חסרת משמעות.

דבר ראשון, ואני כבר אמרתי את זה, אבל אני כנראה צריך להגיד את זה שוב: אין לי שום התנגדות עקרונית לעריכות שלך כי הן שלך. יש פה הרבה עריכות שלך שהן בסדר גמור. יש לי התנגדות אליהן כשהן לא נכונות.

וכן, יש לי התנגדות לזה, לא כי זה „יציב”, אלא כי השינוי שלך פשוט לא נכון.

„שחזור” (revert) היא פעולה בלחיצה אחת שמשחזרת את כל העריכות של המשתמש עם תקציר אוטומטי, וזאת פעולה שנדרשת הרשאה כדי לבצע אותה. אומרים את זה בכל השפות גם על הגרסאות שנעלמות וגם על הגרסה שמוצגת בסוף.

„ביטול” (undo) היא פעולה דומה, אבל ידנית יותר. היא קיימת בערך מאז 2006.

זה המינוח בכל השפות. מעולם לא שמעתי שמישהו התלונן, בשפה כלשהי, שמפריע למישהו שאומרים revert גם על הגרסאות הרעות וגם על הגרסה הטובה. כמו־כן, יש בידול בין שתי המילים: „שחזור” ו„ביטול” הם דברים שונים. (יש בעברית בעיה אחרת עם „שחזור”: גם דף שהיה מחוק וחוזר להיות מוצג נקרא „משוחזר”. באנגלית זאת מילה אחרת: restore. אבל לא בכך עסקינן, וגם על זה לא שמעתי שמישהו אי־פעם התלונן.)

בנוסף, העריכות הבלתי־זהירות שלך גורמות לניסוחים שגויים לחלוטין בדף התרומות ובדף השוואת הגרסאות: „שחזור מעריכתו של”. איך לי מושג איך הגעת לזה בכלל. נצטרך לחכות לרענון התוכנה כאן כדי שזה יתוקן.

אם אתה לא מסכים, זה בסדר. אולי אני ורותם טועים. אולי אפשר לשנות דברים בעברית, ואולי אפילו אפשר לשנות דברים בכל השפות. אבל אל תחליט על זה בעצמך. מדובר בשני מונחים לפעולות נפוצות מאוד, שמופיעים בהמון מקומות, ואם משנים בהם משהו, צריך לעשות את זה אחרי דיון מקיף, וכנראה לא רק בעברית.

אל תשחזר את זה שוב בלי לדבר עם עוד אנשים.

"העריכות הבלתי־זהירות". לא פחות. אז פעם אחת בכל שנותיי בוויקימדיה עשיתי בטעות נזק, אז נהייתי איש לא זהיר? לא יפה.

גם לדבריך, צריך לדון על ההבדל בין restore ו־rollback. אבל מה הג'האד נגד העריכה הזו?

באנגלית ובכל שפה אחרת שאני יכול לקרוא המילה „עריכות” היא מושא ישיר ולא מושא עקיף. משחזרים את העריכות ולא מהעריכות. זה טוב לאנגלית ולעוד המון שפות, המון שנים זה היה טוב גם לעברית, ולא כי אני כתבתי ככה. ואיש לא התלונן. האם צריך לשנות את זה גם בשפות אחרות? אולי כן, אבל אתה תצטרך להסביר למה. אם לא צריך לשנות את זה בשפות אחרות, למה צריך לשנות את זה בעברית?

דיון בין rollback ל־restore זה דבר אחר ופחות חשוב כרגע. מה שמעניין אותך זה דיון בין rollback/revert ו־undo. עכשיו שאני מסתכל על זה באנגלית, השימוש ב־rollback ו־revert לא נראה לי עקבי, אבל אולי אני מפספס משהו. אני אברר אם יש הבדל מוגדר, או שזה אקראי, ואם זה אקראי, אולי זה דורש ליטוש. undo, לעומת זאת, היא בוודאות פעולה שונה, ובעברית קוראים לה „ביטול”. לשחזור בלחיצה אחת צריך לקרוא במילה אחרת.

Прошу переименовать в мою учётную запись Блинов Рюрик Петрович.

Моя учётная запись в других википроектах Блинов Рюрик Петрович.

Hello,

I must have done what it takes to obtain the translator rights but it was long ago… How does one get the translator rights? I am asking because Kadwalan tried to translate a string to Breton, but couldn’t because he doesn’t have the translator rights. He is a trusted Wikipedia user and a fluent Breton speaker. Can he get the necessary rights?

I gave him the translator right.

The usual procedure is to create an account, make some test translations from the main page, and wait until an administrator (often it's myself) gives you the right. It's a measure to filter out spam bots and obvious vandals. Occasionally mistakes happen: good translators are rejected because of am administrator's misunderstanding, and occasionally vandals are approved. But most of the time it seems to work well.

Since you told me that you know him, we can skip the test translations step.

If both of you are going to submit translations now, I recommend that you use the same list of projects that I put on your user page, but each of you works on a different item in the list. For example, you can work on "Core MediaWiki" and he can work on "Visual Editor".

Thanks.

Hello, here is proof that there are nogais in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.

https://m.facebook.com/nogaierindeutschland/videos/675457533312014/?locale2=ps_AF

Here is a book wich is written in nogai latin script in Turkey: http://www.turkevi.org/ilk-nogayca-roman-kitabi-yayinlandi/

I didn't ask for a source that says that there are Nogais in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. I asked for reliable sources that show that the Latin alphabet is standardized and used in formal media, such as professionally published newspapers, books, and websites.

Here are books written in nogai latin script:

https://m.kitapyurdu.com/index.php?route=products/productdetail&product_id=141061

https://www.hepsiburada.com/nogay-halk-yirlari-pm-HB000000YFVW

http://www.turkevi.org/ilk-nogayca-roman-kitabi-yayinlandi/

Hi,

I looked at these, and at all the other books you've posted at Thread:Support/Evidence_that_the_Nogai_was_also_written_in_latin_alphabet.

Have you actually read them yourself?

> https://m.kitapyurdu.com/index.php?route=products/productdetail&product_id=141061

This book is in Turkish.

> https://www.hepsiburada.com/nogay-halk-yirlari-pm-HB000000YFVW

This book also looks like it's in Turkish. Does it say that Nogay is written in Latin? On which page?

> https://pomaknews.com/karsilastirmali-kumanca-nogayca-pecenekce-pomakca/

This is a page in Turkish, not in Nogay. It only lists a few Nogay words and not whole texts.

> http://www.turkevi.org/ilk-nogayca-roman-kitabi-yayinlandi/

This is the only one that looks like it actually be in Nogay. I'll check it in more detail.

> https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb43862093t

This one doesn't look like it's about the Nogay language at all.

> https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb39427818p

This one was published in the Soviet Union in 1969. Are you sure it says that Nogay is written in Latin letters? I doubt it.

> https://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb400525309

Does it say that Nogay is written in Latin? On which page?

> https://nogaytili.home.blog/2019/01/16/sora-batir-destani/

> https://nogaytili.home.blog/

These are blog posts on a free blogging site, so these are not reliable sources.

Yes, I did actually read most of them.

> https://m.kitapyurdu.com/index.php?route=products/productdetail&product_id=141061

This book is in Nogai Turkish (there is written "Nogay Türkçesi grameri" wich means in Turkish "Nogai Turkish Grammer") Nogai is also called in Turkey Nogai Turkish (Nogay Türkçesi)

> https://www.hepsiburada.com/nogay-halk-yirlari-pm-HB000000YFVW

Here is saying "Nogay Halk yırları" wich means in Nogai "Nogai folk songs"

> https://pomaknews.com/karsilastirmali-kumanca-nogayca-pecenekce-pomakca/

Here is the Latin alphabet used for translation from Turkish to Nogai and also from Nogai to pomak

> http://www.turkevi.org/ilk-nogayca-roman-kitabi-yayinlandi/

This is the first novel in nogai language in latin alphabet

> https://nogaytili.home.blog/2019/01/16/sora-batir-destani/

Here is the destan "Şora batır" (old history Shora batir) written in latin alphabet in nogai

> https://nogaiclassroom.home.blog/2019/10/22/nogaysa-gramatika-nogai-grammer-nogayca-gramer/amp/

Here is some words and grammer in Nogai translation in latin alphabet

And please return the edits...

Hi Amire80,

I noticed you have recently deleted several translations that happen to be identical to the English source (such as https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Visualeditor-key-backspace/da). I wonder with what authority you are doing that?

The thing is that (1) not having a translation, and (2) having a translation that is identical to the source, is not the same situation. When there is a translation, it is stated explicitly that this is in fact the Danish (in this case) translation of the source – which just happens to be identical to the original. Not having a translation means that there is no claim about any translation, and some could see that as if the translation is missing and start translating it, and that translation could very well be faulty, as they might misunderstand what the original means, such as misunderstanding the context. Having a translation already present nudges them in the direction of the correct understanding, and also makes them less likely to even focus on that translation, as it is clear that it has already been taken care of.

So is it some kind of strict policy not to allow translations that simply happen to be identical to the original? And in that case, what is the reasoning behind that, as I would find that quite an odd policy? That a translation happens to be identical to the original doesn't mean that it isn't in fact a proper translation that took knowledge, careful consideration etc. to translate.

You don't need to be concerned that people will see that the translation of these messages is missing and make a faulty translation. By default, people will not see these messages as missing, because they are defined as optional. Messages are defined as optional when their translations are expected to be identical to the original English string in most languages. They may still be translated if they must be different from English, but if they are identical, then keeping an identical string is useless.

The messages I deleted recently are defined as optional because these are labels of keyboard keys, which are the same in almost all countries. I know that they may be different in France, Spain, and a few other countries. I don't know about Denmark; if "Backspace", "Shift", or some other key have a different label on keyboards sold in Denmark, then they should be translated with these names. Otherwise, they should be taken directly from English and not translated.

If a message is not defined as optional, but its translation happens to be identical to English, then it indeed shouldn't be deleted.

Optional messages can be shown in the translation interface by clicking the "..." button at the top of the translation interface and checking "Optional messages" ("Valgfrie beskeder").

Hi Amir,

Thank you for a very thorough and excellent reply, addressing all my concerns and guiding me so nicely. You even stated the translation of the label "Optional messages" in Danish; that's just so excellent and wholesome.

In fact, "Shift" does have a diverging translation in Danish, namely "Skift". But that translation is still perfectly alive and well at https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Visualeditor-key-shift/da, just as it should be.

Thank you again for such a perfect reply.

Hi Amrie80

As you know, docs in Category:Message Documentation Templates uses in messages.

I can fix and add Template:Localized to all docs in Category:Message Documentation Templates same Template:Technical?

Please, See Template:Doc-apihelp-description and Template:Doc-apihelp-param.

Please don't do it. Documentation is in English.

Ok

I am not part of translation or OpenStreetMap staff, so I can not speak for them. However, as far as I know, we do not delete (or leave empty) identical translations like Osm:Geocoder.search_osm_nominatim.prefix.amenity.language_school/en-gb for OpenStreetMap (another example..). This a.o. avoids potential issues with the import/export process and for me personally, this makes it easier to find and compare translations. It is likely the string will (have to) be added back. The reason this and similar strings may be marked as outdated are recent pull requests I made, like this one. Translation is left to preferably native speakers on this project. You can simply ignore these outdated warnings if the translation is already correct. Thanks for your understanding.

(It is unlikely individual strings will be marked for translation for individual languages at any point on this project, as it is basically redundant once they have been translated. There's unlikely to be any large change in the english names any time soon.)